Why does the market typically give japanese/korean automakers a free pass?

When trying to enter the luxury market, that is.

Look at VW. It is a true german brand. And for most of last gen, some of its models had a considerable overlap with its sister brand, audis's models. If you pay close attention to detail, you can see the VW logo next to the Audi logo in some windshields, seat belt buckets. etc. Yet, who would pay all that money for passat W8? No way, "OMG VW is not a luxury brand".

Then VW offered the phaeton. Yes, I do realize that VW trying to go for MB's and BMW's market was utterly stupid. Yet, some arguments for it were here and there. VW took the hit of the passat W8 just to ease people into thinking of a phaeton-priced VW. The phaeton was German, sleek, sophisticated and... shared platform with a fucking bentley, none the less. People quickly went like "OGOGOGG A luxury VW?! Lulz nao!" => To be fair I'd not buy one too.

Now, american cars. People quickly scold cadillac when any little something resembles a chevy or buick interior part. And even if a car was 100% different from any brand stablemate, a caddy will always "feel like a malibu". It was not until the CTS people took cadillac seriously once again. Lincoln?! LOL. Their new flagship is priced sub-40K, loaded. Automotive journalists examined the thing with a microscope. I have read stupid shit like "the plastic right behind the center armrest is hard an scraps my elbow if I go all the way back with my arm". People are way too happy to yell to the four winds that it has "a taurus platform, so not luxury!". Oh well, they forgot to mention that platform came from volvo's flagship as well! => To be honest, I find the MKS dull and would never buy one, but still...

Nevermind the fact that a great lincoln (unlike today's lincoln!) was discontinued because of piss poor sales: The continental.

But now, let's look at... HYUNDAI!!!

They're not a luxury division at all. They were until VERY recently a division known for bad quality and econocars (yes, I know they have improved a lot, but still). Now everyone is buzzing about their genesis. Yes, a car as expensive as the lincoln MKS. A car that automotive journalists compare to infinitely superior cars such as the 5 series and benz E class on a regular basis. The people also joke about "buying the car, taking off the badge and winning a bet that their car is a 40K Hyundai". Hyundai does't have a german heritage to back them up. Nor are they a dedicated luxury division like lincoln or caddy. Nor did they have a car of the price of the passat W8 to fall back on. And yes, their genesis may be good, but it is still not a 5 series or E class.

So why are both, journalists and the people in general giving hyundai a free pass? How come hyundai can compete with BMW or mercedes, but not VW or lincoln?

This reminds me of acura and infinity. For years they werer nothing more than souped up hondas and nissans. Yet nobody went ape shit over that...

I don't really mind what's going on, and like I said before, I'd never buy a lincoln or a phaeton or W8 myself, I am just very curious on how the genesis is getting such a blatant free pass (irrespective on how good or bad it is). Not even German brands get such a free pass.

Price is the big difference. When the Japanese and Korean luxury cars came out, they offered well-packaged vehicles at reasonable prices. They did have a premium price compared to their plebian cars, but still undercut the competition by quite a bit, and were still very good cars in their own right. People who would be priced out of a BMW or a Benz could afford an Acura or a Lexus and be just as happy. In those kinds of instances, the respective companies realized they didn't have the brand cachet to compete directly, and instead started small and worked their way up to build that identity through value.

VW, however, priced their luxury cars the same, if not more, than the competition from the get-go, as if they already had the brand identity. The cars may have been good, but really...if it's just as good as an Audi, and priced the same as an Audi, with the Audi arguably looking better...why not just buy the Audi? It's also a stupid idea to give your high-luxury brand internal competition when it was just starting to really give BMW and Benz a run for their money.

And Lincoln just plain sucks anymore. They're not even trying.

I will agree wit Jay and also add to that, that the Japanese made a major effort on their luxury brands to not use similar body and interior parts as they used with their standard variant. Look at the original Lexus ES300, I had no clue it was technically a Camry until I was told so. Audi and VW have too many vehicle crossovers, so you can see the similarities in certain models inside and out.

To me, Acura is more of a performance brand than luxury.

A lot of the Cadillac cry-babying has stopped with the automotive journalists since the second gen CTS has come out, if anything they are waiting to see what will come out next.

Lincoln should only make Town Cars; Ford doesn't want to apply an effort towards their luxury brand. They need to develop a new full size sedan, a sport coupe, a sport sedan, and dump the Navigator or remodel it (trying to put a '61 Continental grille on a '09 SUV looks rediculous). They have down a midsize sedan based off the Taurus, but that's what the Continental was for the last 20 years. They need to try harder if they want to compete with other luxury brands.

theyre not being given a free pass. a) you'll never see celebrities and business leaders driving around in one and b) they sell because they cost half what a Mercedes does. The Phaeton cost the same if not more.

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:theyre not being given a free pass. a) you'll never see celebrities and business leaders driving around in one and b) they sell because they cost half what a Mercedes does. The Phaeton cost the same if not more.

I will address this more in my response to Jay, but in short:

1) The Genesis is getting compared to the 5 series or E class consistently by the automotive press and when everyday guys talk about cars.
2) The Genesis costs 38K. This is more than say, a 3 series, C class, A4, infiniti G37 and the acura TL.
3) The Passat W8 costed roughly the same as the Genesis. The W8, with its audilike interior, coming from the German sister brand to audi. Yet regular people and journalists alike whined and moaned about "WWWOOOW nearly 40k for a passat" -Apparently nearly 40k for a hyundai is ok, see where the free pass comes into play?-
4) The current passat's more equipped versions sold like shit. Again, how can someone pay so much for a passat? The car got stripped down, the price jacked down, and VW introduced the CC (which copies the CLS Styling).
5) You won't see celebrities and business leaders driving C class mercedes, acuras, lexus ES or infiniti M45's (let alone the G37!) either. All they drive are rolls, bentleys and the like. Maybe an E class or 5 series (but that's it! not even A6's or other cars of the same segment).

JaysonAych wrote:Price is the big difference. When the Japanese and Korean luxury cars came out, they offered well-packaged vehicles at reasonable prices. They did have a premium price compared to their plebian cars, but still undercut the competition by quite a bit, and were still very good cars in their own right. People who would be priced out of a BMW or a Benz could afford an Acura or a Lexus and be just as happy. In those kinds of instances, the respective companies realized they didn't have the brand cachet to compete directly, and instead started small and worked their way up to build that identity through value.

VW, however, priced their luxury cars the same, if not more, than the competition from the get-go, as if they already had the brand identity. The cars may have been good, but really...if it's just as good as an Audi, and priced the same as an Audi, with the Audi arguably looking better...why not just buy the Audi? It's also a stupid idea to give your high-luxury brand internal competition when it was just starting to really give BMW and Benz a run for their money.

And Lincoln just plain sucks anymore. They're not even trying.

I agree with you. But this hyundai made the jump from econo-hyundais to a car on the price of acuras, infinitis, and even surpassing the price of say, a C class, 3 series or lexus ES/IS. I am not sure the Genesis is undercutting anything but the midsize luxury segment... which happens to be undercut also by those passats, lincolns, cadillacs and other cars people didn't give the same free pass.

And yes, lol@lincoln... not even trying!

Way too high of a word/ post ratio here.

+1 would not read again.

The_Edge wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:theyre not being given a free pass. a) you'll never see celebrities and business leaders driving around in one and b) they sell because they cost half what a Mercedes does. The Phaeton cost the same if not more.

I will address this more in my response to Jay, but in short:

1) The Genesis is getting compared to the 5 series or E class consistently by the automotive press and when everyday guys talk about cars.
2) The Genesis costs 38K. This is more than say, a 3 series, C class, A4, infiniti G37 and the acura TL.
3) The Passat W8 costed roughly the same as the Genesis. The W8, with its audilike interior, coming from the German sister brand to audi. Yet regular people and journalists alike whined and moaned about "WWWOOOW nearly 40k for a passat" -Apparently nearly 40k for a hyundai is ok, see where the free pass comes into play?-
4) The current passat's more equipped versions sold like shit. Again, how can someone pay so much for a passat? The car got stripped down, the price jacked down, and VW introduced the CC (which copies the CLS Styling).
5) You won't see celebrities and business leaders driving C class mercedes, acuras, lexus ES or infiniti M45's (let alone the G37!) either. All they drive are rolls, bentleys and the like. Maybe an E class or 5 series (but that's it! not even A6's or other cars of the same segment).

problem is the phaeton was actually pretty shit

and have any of these reviews had the genesis actually beating an e-class/5 series??