Venezuela weirdo wants to create a new cold war

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080912/Venezuela.US/

LOL asking the russians to deploy bombers in venezuela.

Chavez said Thursday night that U.S. Ambassador Patrick Duddy is no longer welcome

P-Duddy

Sounds like one paranoid mother fucker

Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

TheWoerus wrote:Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders. It's what the system produces. Garbage in...garbage out." -- George Carlin

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders. It's what the system produces. Garbage in...garbage out." -- George Carlin

I don't necessarily believe that though... Roosevelt, Lincoln...we've had some great leaders. Other countries have had them too. We're just in a shitty position right now. I don't know what's going on. fuck.

chavez is a fucking nut.

TheWoerus wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders. It's what the system produces. Garbage in...garbage out." -- George Carlin

I don't necessarily believe that though... Roosevelt, Lincoln...we've had some great leaders. Other countries have had them too. We're just in a shitty position right now. I don't know what's going on. fuck.

Yeah, but those leaders lived a long time ago in a system that hadn't been completely beaten yet, and people had more hardships to deal with then. People in general these days are soft and have lived spoiled little lives where they fucking flip because their high-speed internet went out for 2 hours, or because the new Britney CD is sold out and they were forced to do the unthinkable and drive their Suburban to an entirely different mall 5 miles away and cut into their time eating bon-bons on the couch while watching America's Got Talent. The average American in Roosevelt's time trying to find a job to make ends meet and pay enough to eat regularly because of the crippling economy or shipping off to fight the bloodiest war in history probably was made of sterner stuff than most of the people I see trudging around every day, and made far more meaningful choices in their lives, including who they elected.

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders. It's what the system produces. Garbage in...garbage out." -- George Carlin

I don't necessarily believe that though... Roosevelt, Lincoln...we've had some great leaders. Other countries have had them too. We're just in a shitty position right now. I don't know what's going on. fuck.

Yeah, but those leaders lived a long time ago in a system that hadn't been completely beaten yet, and people had more hardships to deal with then. People in general these days are soft and have lived spoiled little lives where they fucking flip because their high-speed internet went out for 2 hours, or because the new Britney CD is sold out and they were forced to do the unthinkable and drive their Suburban to an entirely different mall 5 miles away and cut into their time eating bon-bons on the couch while watching America's Got Talent. The average American in Roosevelt's time trying to find a job to make ends meet and pay enough to eat regularly because of the crippling economy or shipping off to fight the bloodiest war in history probably was made of sterner stuff than most of the people I see trudging around every day, and made far more meaningful choices in their lives, including who they elected.

I don't know man. I think you could make a claim that every successive generation has had it easier than the previous one, that there was a degree of laziness or privilege that accompanied advances in technology or what not. I think that the real problem in the States is that certain groups (ie. hyper religious, well funded inbred types) hijacked the once noble Republican party. They throw tons and tons of money into elections and, effectively, brow beat subsection of the population into believing that they're the only group that is 'really' patriotic... that the enemy is not only abroad, but across the aisle of Congress... it's really quite amazing, and certainly not unique to our age. That Goering quote about leading a population to war is a beautiful example - as is Nazism generally. 30s era Germans weren't less intelligent than modern Americans, and they weren't more distracted. They were easily manipulated by a large, wealthy, powerful organization that played on contemporary fears. WW1 was another great example - on both sides. America will emerge, eventually, from this mess - even if McCain / Palin get in. But it'll suck.

TheWoerus wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:

TheWoerus wrote:Chavez is a ham-fisted tyrant. No better than Bush. I'd love to see the day when calm, rational, people with a nuanced view of world affairs, politics and society are actually placed in charge.

"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders. It's what the system produces. Garbage in...garbage out." -- George Carlin

I don't necessarily believe that though... Roosevelt, Lincoln...we've had some great leaders. Other countries have had them too. We're just in a shitty position right now. I don't know what's going on. fuck.

Yeah, but those leaders lived a long time ago in a system that hadn't been completely beaten yet, and people had more hardships to deal with then. People in general these days are soft and have lived spoiled little lives where they fucking flip because their high-speed internet went out for 2 hours, or because the new Britney CD is sold out and they were forced to do the unthinkable and drive their Suburban to an entirely different mall 5 miles away and cut into their time eating bon-bons on the couch while watching America's Got Talent. The average American in Roosevelt's time trying to find a job to make ends meet and pay enough to eat regularly because of the crippling economy or shipping off to fight the bloodiest war in history probably was made of sterner stuff than most of the people I see trudging around every day, and made far more meaningful choices in their lives, including who they elected.

I don't know man. I think you could make a claim that every successive generation has had it easier than the previous one, that there was a degree of laziness or privilege that accompanied advances in technology or what not. I think that the real problem in the States is that certain groups (ie. hyper religious, well funded inbred types) hijacked the once noble Republican party. They throw tons and tons of money into elections and, effectively, brow beat subsection of the population into believing that they're the only group that is 'really' patriotic... that the enemy is not only abroad, but across the aisle of Congress... it's really quite amazing, and certainly not unique to our age. That Goering quote about leading a population to war is a beautiful example - as is Nazism generally. 30s era Germans weren't less intelligent than modern Americans, and they weren't more distracted. They were easily manipulated by a large, wealthy, powerful organization that played on contemporary fears. WW1 was another great example - on both sides. America will emerge, eventually, from this mess - even if McCain / Palin get in. But it'll suck.

*sigh*...the only thing that will solve the mess is to crank the LHC to 11 and break the switch.

Look at who really wants a new Cold War, Washington. Trying to encircle Russia with either the war on terror and by trying to bring former Soviet states into NATO. Putting ABM missiles in Poland, who do you all think wants a new Cold War? Americans get in a fit because two Blackjack bombers fly to Venezuela which is over 1000 miles away from the USA. But its suppose to be A'ok for the US to put ABM missiles in Poland.

Mark my words, if the US tries to put those missiles in Poland the Russians will do a military strike on them. Russia will not tolerate the USA encircling it and it will go to war over such nonsense. There is no credible strategic reason for NATO to expand to let in Ukraine or Georgia in.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Look at who really wants a new Cold War, Washington. Trying to encircle Russia with either the war on terror and by trying to bring former Soviet states into NATO. Putting ABM missiles in Poland, who do you all think wants a new Cold War? Americans get in a fit because two Blackjack bombers fly to Venezuela which is over 1000 miles away from the USA. But its suppose to be A'ok for the US to put ABM missiles in Poland.

Mark my words, if the US tries to put those missiles in Poland the Russians will do a military strike on them. Russia will not tolerate the USA encircling it and it will go to war over such nonsense. There is no credible strategic reason for NATO to expand to let in Ukraine or Georgia in.

I am not pointing fingers at USA or Russia. They both share blame to a bigger or lesser extent.

I am saying that venezuela nutcase is taking advantage of the obvious tensions between the two countries and stirs the pot as much as he can.

The_Edge wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Look at who really wants a new Cold War, Washington. Trying to encircle Russia with either the war on terror and by trying to bring former Soviet states into NATO. Putting ABM missiles in Poland, who do you all think wants a new Cold War? Americans get in a fit because two Blackjack bombers fly to Venezuela which is over 1000 miles away from the USA. But its suppose to be A'ok for the US to put ABM missiles in Poland.

Mark my words, if the US tries to put those missiles in Poland the Russians will do a military strike on them. Russia will not tolerate the USA encircling it and it will go to war over such nonsense. There is no credible strategic reason for NATO to expand to let in Ukraine or Georgia in.

I am not pointing fingers at USA or Russia. They both share blame to a bigger or lesser extent.

I am saying that venezuela nutcase is taking advantage of the obvious tensions between the two countries and stirs the pot as much as he can.

Russia can say the same about Poland and Georgia.

What is so funny about the insanity of the US position is that they cry about Iran getting nukes (no real evidence to support this at the moment though) almost to point of war on it but they need the Russians on their side to help stop this. The US govt. wants to piss that away over 4 million Georgians and over the two regions who apparently want to break away from Georgia.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

The_Edge wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Look at who really wants a new Cold War, Washington. Trying to encircle Russia with either the war on terror and by trying to bring former Soviet states into NATO. Putting ABM missiles in Poland, who do you all think wants a new Cold War? Americans get in a fit because two Blackjack bombers fly to Venezuela which is over 1000 miles away from the USA. But its suppose to be A'ok for the US to put ABM missiles in Poland.

Mark my words, if the US tries to put those missiles in Poland the Russians will do a military strike on them. Russia will not tolerate the USA encircling it and it will go to war over such nonsense. There is no credible strategic reason for NATO to expand to let in Ukraine or Georgia in.

I am not pointing fingers at USA or Russia. They both share blame to a bigger or lesser extent.

I am saying that venezuela nutcase is taking advantage of the obvious tensions between the two countries and stirs the pot as much as he can.

Russia can say the same about Poland and Georgia.

What is so funny about the insanity of the US position is that they cry about Iran getting nukes (no real evidence to support this at the moment though) almost to point of war on it but they need the Russians on their side to help stop this. The US govt. wants to piss that away over 4 million Georgians and over the two regions who apparently want to break away from Georgia.

Dude we can so have an interesting convo, but that will only happen if you reply to my points and vice versa... that was kind of a sidestep.

Georgia/Poland is one thing, Venezuela weirdo is other. The topic is that the venezuela weirdo is stirring the pot on purpose because he wants russia and the states to get into a new cold (or not that cold!) war.

If USA is to blame for the russia tensions or not, of georgia and poland should have said no to the US proposal and even to NATO, etc, those are separate issues.

Anyway, it is not like georgia/Poland did it to stir the pot, unlike venezuela.

Poland and Georgia did do it and are doing it to stir the pot.

How happy would you be if Russia began encircling the USA. I suggest you'd be pissed and calling your govt. to do something about it.

If the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be armed conflict.

Folks turn off American Idol or whatever shit. This is serious, if the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be conflict with Russia. Trust me it is a line Russia will stand to and will not accept being crossed.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Poland and Georgia did do it and are doing it to stir the pot.

How happy would you be if Russia began encircling the USA. I suggest you'd be pissed and calling your govt. to do something about it.

If the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be armed conflict.

Ack, I will try to be real simple and direct here:

This topic is: venezuela weirdo wants to stir the pot.
This topic is not: Georgia/Poland are stirring the pot.
This topic is not: USA Sucks/USA is going down/USA fucked up in this and that

So tell me why or why not you think that venezuelan asshole is or is not stirring the pot on purpose and how you feel about it. I really want to know what you think because you seem to be pretty interested in politics. I just can't if you're just trying to force your views on other topics instead of answering.

Side topic for you: Georgia and Poland share a deep, complex historical relationship with both, the US and Russia. (2) Russia has been trying to expand to the South Ossetia border for a long time and even gave SO people russian passports as a weasel way to try to stir shit, while Venezuela does NOT share a history with russia or the states, nor did the "weaseling" happen.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Folks turn off American Idol or whatever shit. This is serious, if the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be conflict with Russia. Trust me it is a line Russia will stand to and will not accept being crossed.

And then, let me guess, america is going down after uber pwnage from the russian folks and you will be uber happy and dance polka

The_Edge wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Poland and Georgia did do it and are doing it to stir the pot.

How happy would you be if Russia began encircling the USA. I suggest you'd be pissed and calling your govt. to do something about it.

If the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be armed conflict.

Ack, I will try to be real simple and direct here:

This topic is: venezuela weirdo wants to stir the pot.
This topic is not: Georgia/Poland are stirring the pot.
This topic is not: USA Sucks/USA is going down/USA fucked up in this and that

So tell me why or why not you think that venezuelan asshole is or is not stirring the pot on purpose and how you feel about it. I really want to know what you think because you seem to be pretty interested in politics. I just can't if you're just trying to force your views on other topics instead of answering.

Side topic for you: Georgia and Poland share a deep, complex historical relationship with both, the US and Russia. (2) Russia has been trying to expand to the South Ossetia border for a long time and even gave SO people russian passports as a weasel way to try to stir shit, while Venezuela does NOT share a history with russia or the states, nor did the "weaseling" happen.

Russia and Venezuala are showing political/diplomatic tit for tat as to what the US is dong with nations around Russia. They are like peas in a pod.

The_Edge wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Folks turn off American Idol or whatever shit. This is serious, if the US puts ABM missiles in Poland there will be conflict with Russia. Trust me it is a line Russia will stand to and will not accept being crossed.

And then, let me guess, america is going down after uber pwnage from the russian folks and you will be uber happy and dance polka

Um no...

The point is clear. Russia will not tolerate being encircled by the USA. What part of that do you not understand?

Ok, Les you LOVE posting 14 pargraph walls of text about your (extreme) views.

But when someone actually wants to have a talk with you about a certain topic, you dodge the topic, post more abour tour views (rather than the topic) and response "what part of you don't you understand?"

The_Edge wrote:Ok, Les you LOVE posting 14 pargraph walls of text about your (extreme) views.

But when someone actually wants to have a talk with you about a certain topic, you dodge the topic, post more abour tour views (rather than the topic) and response "what part of you don't you understand?"

I'm not dodging anything. I note that Russia is playing a game of political/diplomatic tit for the with the USA. Difference is Russia only wants to piss the USA off by being friendly with leaders like Chavez. The USA wants to encircle and subvert Russia and that is much more dangerous as I said many times already Russia will not tolerate US encirclement and Russia will go to war over such.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

The_Edge wrote:Ok, Les you LOVE posting 14 pargraph walls of text about your (extreme) views.

But when someone actually wants to have a talk with you about a certain topic, you dodge the topic, post more abour tour views (rather than the topic) and response "what part of you don't you understand?"

I'm not dodging anything. I note that Russia is playing a game of political/diplomatic tit for the with the USA. Difference is Russia only wants to piss the USA off by being friendly with leaders like Chavez. The USA wants to encircle and subvert Russia and that is much more dangerous as I said many times already Russia will not tolerate US encirclement and Russia will go to war over such.

Ok, I will try to be very simple man:

My topic = The venezuela guy has never liked the states and now that Russia/USA have problems, he is trying to stir the pot
Your response = OMG USA sucks they are encircling russia poor russians they are only being friendly with chavez and russia will not tolerate and there will be war.

See the difference? My focus is on the crazy venezuelan's idiotic actions, as opposed to your focus on USA's and Russia's equally idiotic and irresponsible actions (with a clear pro-russia focus).

To understand what Venezuela and Russia are doing you have to look at the bigger picture. As for Chavez not liking the USA, it's more he does not like Bush. Don't forget a few years ago the Bush regime supported the coup to overthrow Chavez who BTW was democratically elected to office in Venezuela. If Venezuela supported a coup on the U.S. President do you think there would not be anger returned back by the US?

BTW my words have no pro-Russia focus but only hi-lites what it will do if the US govt. continues such dangerous policies towards Russia.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:To understand what Venezuela and Russia are doing you have to look at the bigger picture. As for Chavez not liking the USA, it's more he does not like Bush. Don't forget a few years ago the Bush regime supported the coup to overthrow Chavez who BTW was democratically elected to office in Venezuela. If Venezuela supported a coup on the U.S. President do you think there would not be anger returned back by the US?

BTW my words have no pro-Russia focus but only hi-lites what it will do if the US govt. continues such dangerous policies towards Russia.

I know that my point is part of a bigger picture. But that doesn't mean that you have to ignore my point and continue with your point (topic hijacking?)

You're also assuming chavez is a reasonable, coherent man who knows this bigger picture and acts accordingly to the current state of events. He is not. He is an idiotic, mentally deranged monkey who acts on the moment as according to his passions. He is the very same man who drove the king of spain out of his mind and got yelled at. And no, he doesn't like the USA, not bush. I would post a link here to the youtube vid where he disses america/americans, not bush, but it's in spanish.

You insist on ignoring my topic and hijacking it, so I guess I'll drop the gauntlet on this one.

I'm not defending Chavez. He is as idiotic an many other leaders have displayed. He and Bush are actually two peas in the same pod based on irrational thought and lack of deeper understanding. My point is that the US govt. by its own dangerous actions create said tit for tat. It's time the US population looked at how its govt. esp. the current one has acted creating a more dangerous world. It's time to stop fluffing up irresponsible US govt. foreign policy.