How is America going to get out of this one?

thewalrus wrote:

spaced cowboy wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Turbojett wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:

Swerve wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:

Swerve wrote:Germany would be the best of the large economies by far, if only it could be free of supporting the shitty Euros. If I was a hard working German tax payer, I would not be happy bailing out a bunch of lazy Mediterraneans who are only going to continue ruining their economies.

hopefully the euro will fail before we get dragged into it. the european union has been nothing but a fucking curse for the handful of strong economies in europe. england, france and germany having to support the rest of the shit on this continent

I wouldn't put England in the same league as Germany - it would have been screwed regardless and hasn't helped other nations to the extent that Germany is attempting. Germany is ranked second only to China in terms of making tough decisions in good and bad times to keep its economy on track post reunification. It's politicians are actually more impressive than China's because they made those decisions knowing they are at the expense of votes.

The reason Germany is doing that is because they gave up their own currency for the EU. We didnt.

I can't help but think that the fundamental problem with the Euro is that its a common currency shared by several different independent economies. If you're going to have a common currency, then the European Union needs a common unified economy. Otherwise, everybody was just better off keeping their own individual currency.
Euro = bad idea, exacerbated further by poor planning.

All I know is that Canada is a disaster waiting to happen. We've looked pretty good so far, but apparently Canadians carry more personal debt than anyone else on the planet at present. And by a large margin. No savings + lots of debt + no equity = trouble!

The survey also found that almost half of Canadians put aside only five per cent or less of their net income in savings each year.

Certain areas are going to be a lot harder hit than others. And by certain areas I mean major urban centres with significant property bubbles. I've seen and heard a lot annecdotally that scares the shit out of me.

I've been toying with the idea of buying a place next year, and, honestly, I'm thinking that the best bet might be to just stockpile cash in TFSAs / GIC for the moment - buy something in a couple years with a 20% down payment if I'm inclined - but I'm really not convinced that it's smart to be putting 5% down on a condo right now. And being completely without any cash. I've heard a lot of people say that we're about to be hit by a second property bubble burst.

Save your cash until you can afford 20% down.

The recession in Canada wasn't bad enough to squeeze the over-extenders......

millertime wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

spaced cowboy wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Turbojett wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:

Swerve wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:

Swerve wrote:Germany would be the best of the large economies by far, if only it could be free of supporting the shitty Euros. If I was a hard working German tax payer, I would not be happy bailing out a bunch of lazy Mediterraneans who are only going to continue ruining their economies.

hopefully the euro will fail before we get dragged into it. the european union has been nothing but a fucking curse for the handful of strong economies in europe. england, france and germany having to support the rest of the shit on this continent

I wouldn't put England in the same league as Germany - it would have been screwed regardless and hasn't helped other nations to the extent that Germany is attempting. Germany is ranked second only to China in terms of making tough decisions in good and bad times to keep its economy on track post reunification. It's politicians are actually more impressive than China's because they made those decisions knowing they are at the expense of votes.

The reason Germany is doing that is because they gave up their own currency for the EU. We didnt.

I can't help but think that the fundamental problem with the Euro is that its a common currency shared by several different independent economies. If you're going to have a common currency, then the European Union needs a common unified economy. Otherwise, everybody was just better off keeping their own individual currency.
Euro = bad idea, exacerbated further by poor planning.

All I know is that Canada is a disaster waiting to happen. We've looked pretty good so far, but apparently Canadians carry more personal debt than anyone else on the planet at present. And by a large margin. No savings + lots of debt + no equity = trouble!

The survey also found that almost half of Canadians put aside only five per cent or less of their net income in savings each year.

Certain areas are going to be a lot harder hit than others. And by certain areas I mean major urban centres with significant property bubbles. I've seen and heard a lot annecdotally that scares the shit out of me.

I've been toying with the idea of buying a place next year, and, honestly, I'm thinking that the best bet might be to just stockpile cash in TFSAs / GIC for the moment - buy something in a couple years with a 20% down payment if I'm inclined - but I'm really not convinced that it's smart to be putting 5% down on a condo right now. And being completely without any cash. I've heard a lot of people say that we're about to be hit by a second property bubble burst.

Save your cash until you can afford 20% down.

Yeah, that's my thinking. Apparently you don't have to worry about fronting for the CMHC insurance if you hit the 20% mark. So that's more or less my target. Well that +3 - 4 months salary.

One of the most ridiculous, yet popular, things the previous Government did during the GFC was give everyone $1,000. This was to stimulate the economy through spending and the PM said he'd hate to see people not go out and spend the cash.
Considering the GFC was caused by everyone spending more money than they actually had, it was a terrible move that encouraged bad habits in my opinion.

Swerve wrote:One of the most ridiculous, yet popular, things the previous Government did during the GFC was give everyone $1,000. This was to stimulate the economy through spending and the PM said he'd hate to see people not go out and spend the cash.
Considering the GFC was caused by everyone spending more money than they actually had, it was a terrible move that encouraged bad habits in my opinion.

Our guys did that too - at least at the Provincial level, can't recall if they did it federally too. Definitely agree that it's a pretty good way to cement the underlying causes of the recession by, essentially, advocating excessive consumerism and little savings. Plus it was blatant voting buying - especially given how close it alway happened to an election.

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:2 people:

person 1: racked up $100,000 a credit card debt...declared himself bankrupt and refused to pay anything off. convicted of fraud, drug possession and theft. took out a credit card and offered a $10,000 limit straight away.

person 2: never had a loan, never had any debt or record of any kind whatsoever. pays off current account overdraft every month for past ~10 years without fail. takes out a credit card and offered a $1000 limit.

how on earth does that make any sense?

It doesn't, but that is how the banking system seems to function now. The average individual sees little wage growth, faces high costs for basic living, and is a consumer whore due to modern western society's hyper-consumerist bent. The only way a consumption-dependent economy can survive if there is little opportunity for wage growth is through overly generous provision of credit. It's insane, but banks seems to find that this is a profitable model. I just wonder how a major run of personal bankruptcies may hit them if people came to their senses and learned to live within their means...

millertime wrote:The recession in Canada wasn't bad enough to squeeze the over-extenders......

As Carney brings the rates back up to normal levels they're going to face a slow death though...