the death knell for Pontiac has been sounded.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/24/autos/pontiac_obit/index.htm?postversion=2009042414&eref=rss_topstories

GM to pull the plug on Pontiac
The brand credited with originating the muscle car will no longer be part of GM's future, according to a source.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Not like the different names mean anything anyway.

Pontiac hasn't meant anything for years. GM doesn't know what the hell to do with it. Every now and then someone gets a glimmer of an idea of what Pontiac is all about, but for every G8 that Pontiac decides to put out, there's 5 other generic plasticized front-wheel-drive economy cars with a spiffy arrowhead on the front that sell alongside it.

Put it out of its fucking misery...GM ruined it like they've ruined most everything else in their company that has a positive legacy.

I'm not surprised.

GM had been systematically shooting pontiac in the feet over and over.

Late 90's: The "excitement division" had sportier versions of the cavalier and camaro (I remember seeing the firebird as basically a 2 + 2 corvette when I was a kid!), a very sporty grand prix gtp and a " "luxury" with attitude" bonnevile. Sounds on.

Then GM kills the firebird, rapes the bonnevile, then rapes the grand prix as well. While they're at it, why not adding a MINIVAN, the AZTEK and some weird minivan-esque car (vibe) to the lineup? Yes, "sporty" and "exctiement" my ass, thank you.

Bad news for Holden.

OH NOES WHERES STORMY GOING TO GET GTO PARTS???

Well, there goes my second-favorite marque.
can somebody tell me why the fuck Buick still exists?

...oh. China. Right.
Fuckin' Commies.

Turbojett wrote:Well, there goes my second-favorite marque.
can somebody tell me why the fuck Buick still exists?

...oh. China. Right.
Fuckin' Commies.

Keeping Buick actually makes more sense now than it did when Oldsmobile was axed. I thought Oldsmobile should have been the brand to keep back then. Cadillac is now moving towards truly competing with BMW and Mercedes-Benz, so Buick is now getting all of the big floaty old fogey cars. It's actually not a bad idea, IMHO.

JaysonAych wrote:

Turbojett wrote:Well, there goes my second-favorite marque.
can somebody tell me why the fuck Buick still exists?

...oh. China. Right.
Fuckin' Commies.

Keeping Buick actually makes more sense now than it did when Oldsmobile was axed. I thought Oldsmobile should have been the brand to keep back then. Cadillac is now moving towards truly competing with BMW and Mercedes-Benz, so Buick is now getting all of the big floaty old fogey cars. It's actually not a bad idea, IMHO.

I agree whole heartedly.

However, why did they keep saturn? hummer? saab?

Weird...

Saab is getting sold. Hummer is dead, or will be soon if it isn't already, and Saturn is right behind Pontiac if the dealers can't get together and come up with a viable business plan to keep that division afloat. Notice how they never gave Pontiac dealers that choice, just killed them with little to no warning.

hummer is going to be sold as well. china is an interested buyer.

saturn is on the block, too.

fuck saab. fucking piece of shit cars.

Aristotle wrote:hummer is going to be sold as well. china is an interested buyer.

saturn is on the block, too.

fuck saab. fucking piece of shit cars.

I like Saab. Or at least I liked them. Now, pretty generic.

Fuck Hummer though. What a waste, and I hate the douches that drive them.

Saturn is the Olds of the car world. Nuf said.

hahaha

i like the saturn sky, though.

Aristotle wrote:hahaha

i like the saturn sky, though.

well Olds does have some redeeming qualities... yurts for example.

i question his yurting experience. if it's comparable to his canoeing, we've got a real problem on our hands.

at least there's naked chicks that we don't sleep with for some reason.

just across the wire:

renault looking at saturn

Aristotle wrote:just across the wire:

renault looking at saturn

Yay! Can't wait for the Saturn Alliance

JaysonAych wrote:

Turbojett wrote:Well, there goes my second-favorite marque.
can somebody tell me why the fuck Buick still exists?

...oh. China. Right.
Fuckin' Commies.

Keeping Buick actually makes more sense now than it did when Oldsmobile was axed. I thought Oldsmobile should have been the brand to keep back then. Cadillac is now moving towards truly competing with BMW and Mercedes-Benz, so Buick is now getting all of the big floaty old fogey cars. It's actually not a bad idea, IMHO.

Honestly, who even needs big, floaty old fogey cars. old fogeys that don't fucking know anything other than big floaty cars? Buicks are just plain, straight up not good cars. Who do they compete for market share against? Mercury? That's a solid power play right there.
The big floaty old fogey cars that don't make any sense in today's market should have been the ones axed. But Pontiac was struck down instead. Why? Oh, it's the "sporty" division, we can't be seen by Washington making "sporty cars". fast is frivolous. fun is not allowed.

Turbojett wrote:
The big floaty old fogey cars that don't make any sense in today's market should have been the ones axed. But Pontiac was struck down instead. Why? Oh, it's the "sporty" division, we can't be seen by Washington making "sporty cars". fast is frivolous. fun is not allowed.

Whoever said that? Pleanty of companies make fast, sporty cars. The difference is they're successful companies.

thewalrus wrote:

Turbojett wrote:
The big floaty old fogey cars that don't make any sense in today's market should have been the ones axed. But Pontiac was struck down instead. Why? Oh, it's the "sporty" division, we can't be seen by Washington making "sporty cars". fast is frivolous. fun is not allowed.

Whoever said that? Pleanty of companies make fast, sporty cars. The difference is they're successful companies.

True that. If GM had done everything right and worried about quality, reliability, style, and everything else that everyone else worried about, they'd probably still be the largest automaker in the world, even in the wake of all this, but well, y'know, couldashouldawoulda.

Turbojett wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Turbojett wrote:
The big floaty old fogey cars that don't make any sense in today's market should have been the ones axed. But Pontiac was struck down instead. Why? Oh, it's the "sporty" division, we can't be seen by Washington making "sporty cars". fast is frivolous. fun is not allowed.

Whoever said that? Pleanty of companies make fast, sporty cars. The difference is they're successful companies.

True that. If GM had done everything right and worried about quality, reliability, style, and everything else that everyone else worried about, they'd probably still be the largest automaker in the world, even in the wake of all this, but well, y'know, couldashouldawoulda.

I agree that keeping Buick and getting rid of Pontiac was a silly decision.

Turbojett wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:

Turbojett wrote:Well, there goes my second-favorite marque.
can somebody tell me why the fuck Buick still exists?

...oh. China. Right.
Fuckin' Commies.

Keeping Buick actually makes more sense now than it did when Oldsmobile was axed. I thought Oldsmobile should have been the brand to keep back then. Cadillac is now moving towards truly competing with BMW and Mercedes-Benz, so Buick is now getting all of the big floaty old fogey cars. It's actually not a bad idea, IMHO.

Honestly, who even needs big, floaty old fogey cars. old fogeys that don't fucking know anything other than big floaty cars? Buicks are just plain, straight up not good cars. Who do they compete for market share against? Mercury? That's a solid power play right there.
The big floaty old fogey cars that don't make any sense in today's market should have been the ones axed. But Pontiac was struck down instead. Why? Oh, it's the "sporty" division, we can't be seen by Washington making "sporty cars". fast is frivolous. fun is not allowed.

They make perfect sense, IMHO. Keep in mind, with the baby boomers reaching retirement age, there's a huge market for big floaty cars on the horizon. And with Cadillac finding its groove again, sticking those cars in the Buick dealerships rather than putting Caddy crests on them is a good move.

As far as Pontiac being struck down for being the "sporty division," it hasn't been the sporty division for a long fucking time. Yeah, they have G8...the Solstice is a good image car, but every review I've read says it's beyond rough around the edges and poorly thought out, and they had the GTO before it, and the Firebird was always consistent before they killed it off, but for decades, it's been an otherwise endless drone of boring cars with cladding and split grilles that elicited no more visceral thrill than the Chevy or the Oldsmobile that sat across from it in the dealership lot.

If Pontiac was truly a sporty division, they wouldn't have any trouble finding a market. The excitement over the renewed muscle car/cheap sport coupe wars proves that people still want sporty cars and their day in the sun is far from over. But GM has been trying to peddle cars for years like the T1000, the Daewoo LeMans, the Phoenix, the 6000, the Sunbird, the Sunfire, the TransSport, the Bonneville, the G6, G5, the G3, the Aztek, the Vibe, the Torrent, and the Montana, and all the while blowing sunshine up our ass and saying, "We're a world-class sports car company and the Excitement Division!" The only way I could see any division in GM being appreciably less exciting than Pontiac is if there was another division that sold Trabants that come with a free Smith and Wesson to off yourself with after the first 50 miles.

Pontiac completely lost their way early in the 80s (in my mind, it was when they had no fucking clue what to do with the Fiero and when they finally figured it out they axed it). If GM hadn't been spending each day of the last 20 years ass-fucking the division, then maybe they could come up with an excuse to keep it.

You quite speak the truth, Pontiac was reduced to a rumpled, shabby heap of its former self, but it just seemed like Pontiac was starting to find its way again; starting to actually become exciting again. The G8, the Solstice, and the GTO, were great, sporty cars, and even the G6 wasn't really that bad, save for the bucktoothed Leno-chin on the GXP models.
But I'd think Baby Boomers would want something better than a big boaty old Buick. I know my parents would never buy anything like that, but then again both my parents are in the throes of mid-life crises and refuse to admit that they're over (Dad) or almost (Mom) 50.

PLENTY

Main Entry:
1plen·ty Listen to the pronunciation of 1plenty
Pronunciation:
\ˈplen-tē\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English plente, from Anglo-French plenté, from Late Latin plenitat-, plenitas, from Latin, fullness, from plenus full — more at full
Date:
13th century

1 a: a full or more than adequate amount or supply <had plenty of time to finish the job> b: a large number or amount <in plenty of trouble>2: the quality or state of being copious : plentifulness