What's old is new, McLaren & Honda power for 2015.

Ahh yes, fond memories of a time when Honda ruled F1 especially with McLaren. How I miss those cool red & white Marlboro, Honda powered cars.

I certainly hope the two great compnaies can find what they had back in the day.

I keep trying to get back into F1, but I haven't been able to. Even with the new USF1 Race. Maybe next season.

Or I'll try and catch Monaco next weekend. That's always good for a viewing.

F1 is and has been since my first days of watching (mid 80's) a sport I follow near religiously. Though I have my beefs with gimmicks, rules and regs I enjoy the sport and spectacle. McLaren has been and always will be my team. Though this year is looking quite shaky for them. In that case I'm happy cheering for Kimi at Lotus. If not him jeez I'll even cheer for Alonso at Ferrari. BTW FUCK VETTEL, FUCK RED BULL! They'd be shit without Newey.

The new engines beginning next year will be interesting. I just wish FIA would open up the regs more. OK, keep them 1.4L turbos but let them pick 4-6-8 cyl. engines what ever? Hell I want refueling back and to ditch the silly tires gimmick. Let there be tire competition too. Two or more suppliers.

DRS though make some aspects interesting it's a shallow gimmick too. Rules for more mechanical grip and less aero grip is the way to go to open up overtaking.

If FIA wants to be more relevant allow a strict supply of fuel in litres each race and thus for engineers to design a balance between engine power, reliability and fuel efficiency. What I mean is a fixed amount of fuel to be used during a race and that there will be refueling forcing teams to better decide pit strategy and how much fuel to run with how many pits stops they use. This could make races more interesting too

But in today's sports world too many idiot fans in too many sports seem to want idiot gimmicks. One day they to will tire of such I hope.

I'm with Wally.

But then again I haven't watched much of ANY racing lately. I just catch the highlights, if there are any.

So they're going back to the turbo 6 in 2015? I thought it was next year...?

I've been watching very close this year. Best driver of the bunch IMO.



He just goes out and drives. Usually can get a race done in one less stop than everyone else. He's not complaining about the tires all day like Vettle/Red Bull. He's taking a tier two car and giving it to Red Bull and Ferrari. Hope he continues to do well and stays with Lotus in the coming years.

Looking forward to Monaco this weekend. REALLY looking forward to the race at the COTA.

Talon wrote:So they're going back to the turbo 6 in 2015? I thought it was next year...?

F1 is going to Turbo V-6 in 2014. McLaren will use a Mercedes engine next year but Honda is coming back into F1 in 2015 as a works engine supplier to McLaren.

Talon wrote:I've been watching very close this year. Best driver of the bunch IMO.



He just goes out and drives. Usually can get a race done in one less stop than everyone else. He's not complaining about the tires all day like Vettle/Red Bull. He's taking a tier two car and giving it to Red Bull and Ferrari. Hope he continues to do well and stays with Lotus in the coming years.

Looking forward to Monaco this weekend. REALLY looking forward to the race at the COTA.

I agree Raikonnen is the best driver in F1 today. Hell in Spain even his former McLaren team mechanics were cheering for him from what was said during the telecast. I know my McLaren team is in tough right now. I will wish them best and hope they can get it together, but I'm ok if Kimmi was to win the 2013 WDC.

I agree about the whining at RedBull and their asshole lead driver. Webber is alright though.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:So they're going back to the turbo 6 in 2015? I thought it was next year...?

F1 is going to Turbo V-6 in 2014. McLaren will use a Mercedes engine next year but Honda is coming back into F1 in 2015 as a works engine supplier to McLaren.

I heard some crazy rumor about a Porsche priced, Honda Powered McLaren in the works. Sounds like a Lotus fighter to me. Right down to the engine supplier rivalry.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:So they're going back to the turbo 6 in 2015? I thought it was next year...?

F1 is going to Turbo V-6 in 2014. McLaren will use a Mercedes engine next year but Honda is coming back into F1 in 2015 as a works engine supplier to McLaren.

I heard some crazy rumor about a Porsche priced, Honda Powered McLaren in the works. Sounds like a Lotus fighter to me. Right down to the engine supplier rivalry.

Could be cool. A McLaren 2015 reinvention of say the Acura NSX would be cool.

It just bores me lately. At least when Schumacher dominated you knew you were watching the best driver and usually the best car. Now you're just watching whoever the FIA have fiddled the rules to let win. The year Brawn F1 won it really killed it for me.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:So they're going back to the turbo 6 in 2015? I thought it was next year...?

F1 is going to Turbo V-6 in 2014. McLaren will use a Mercedes engine next year but Honda is coming back into F1 in 2015 as a works engine supplier to McLaren.

I heard some crazy rumor about a Porsche priced, Honda Powered McLaren in the works. Sounds like a Lotus fighter to me. Right down to the engine supplier rivalry.

I read those rumors were debunked and Porsche will not be involved in F1.

But, I have to agree, Les. A Honda powered McLaren just reeks of Senna. I was just watching some Youtube of him through Monaco. It's ridiculous to think the cars back then had 1200 hp, less (no?) electronics, and still used a true manual gearbox. The skill level required to master such a car is insane...

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:It just bores me lately. At least when Schumacher dominated you knew you were watching the best driver and usually the best car. Now you're just watching whoever the FIA have fiddled the rules to let win. The year Brawn F1 won it really killed it for me.

I agree with some of your post. I didn't particularly enjoy it as much when Schumacher was driving as he basically always won, so it was more of a race for second. Wasn't as exciting...

However, I do agree that seems like F1 is starting to cater to the fucking Red Bulls forcing Perilli to change their tire compound after the race in Spain. I know Ferrari and Mercedes weren't too happy with the tires but I rarely heard them complain about it... in fact, I only ever heard Vettle complain about it. You're all on the same tires, go out there and race! I am really starting to dislike Vettle. I do like Webber, though. I really hope Kimi doesn't go to RB next year...

Kimi is my favourite now Schumacher has retired.

Vettel i respect and sort of like, but its too much of a show with the RB lot.

I love Ferrari but i'll never like Alonso, and the few people i know involved in F1 all say Massa is the biggest c**t on the grid (and Alonso is extremely nice).

I like Alonso; I think he is extremely talented. If I were to name the three best drivers out there, I'd have to say Kimi, Alonso, and Hamilton. The Mercs have been struggling like mad on long runs, but Hamilton is still sitting in fourth place in points.

I am not a big fan of the Sauber Rossberg, Sergio Perez, or Vettel. I think they all drive like dicks, like they're the only ones on the track and everyone else can go f themselves. I think there is a big difference between that and a quality driver who will race you clean and still make passes (Hamilton, Button, Webber, etc).

Vettel is a good driver but I am sick of him being the poster boy for F1, and being treated as such. I think if you put him, Raikkonen, Alonso, and Hamilton in the exact same car with one set of tires and give them 20 laps (TT or race) he loses every time.

Talon wrote:I like Alonso; I think he is extremely talented. If I were to name the three best drivers out there, I'd have to say Kimi, Alonso, and Hamilton. The Mercs have been struggling like mad on long runs, but Hamilton is still sitting in fourth place in points.

I am not a big fan of the Sauber Rossberg, Sergio Perez, or Vettel. I think they all drive like dicks, like they're the only ones on the track and everyone else can go f themselves. I think there is a big difference between that and a quality driver who will race you clean and still make passes (Hamilton, Button, Webber, etc).

Vettel is a good driver but I am sick of him being the poster boy for F1, and being treated as such. I think if you put him, Raikkonen, Alonso, and Hamilton in the exact same car with one set of tires and give them 20 laps (TT or race) he loses every time.

Vettel is the modern day Nelson Piquet. Over rated 3 time champion. Without Newey's Red Bull there would not have been any WDC's for Vettel.

Yes, some of the newer drivers do drive with blinders on and it shows by how they drive on the track around others. It's like a video game for them, they drive the line they want and don't care if they block or get tapped/hit by the other driver(s) as in a video game it usually has minimal negative results. But in real life it's likely race troubling or ending results.

Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

thewalrus wrote:Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

Caterham formerly one of the Lotus teams. Two different corps were running as Lotus teams two years ago. A Judge ruled in favour of the current Lotus Renault (Black an Gold) team keeping its name. The other renamed to Caterham and kept the traditional Lotus colours. Lotus Renault team borrowed from back to the classic John Player colour scheme of the late 70's early 80's with Black and Gold. Remember Mario Andretti's WDC champion car back then?

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

Caterham formerly one of the Lotus teams. Two different corps were running as Lotus teams two years ago. A Judge ruled in favour of the current Lotus Renault (Black an Gold) team keeping its name. The other renamed to Caterham and kept the traditional Lotus colours. Lotus Renault team borrowed from back to the classic John Player colour scheme of the late 70's early 80's with Black and Gold. Remember Mario Andretti's WDC champion car back then?

That kind of sucks. Is this the same Caterham that makes the 7 replicas? I guess that's close enough. But it'd be better to see Lotus in traditional, Jim Clark, color scheme.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

Caterham formerly one of the Lotus teams. Two different corps were running as Lotus teams two years ago. A Judge ruled in favour of the current Lotus Renault (Black an Gold) team keeping its name. The other renamed to Caterham and kept the traditional Lotus colours. Lotus Renault team borrowed from back to the classic John Player colour scheme of the late 70's early 80's with Black and Gold. Remember Mario Andretti's WDC champion car back then?

That kind of sucks. Is this the same Caterham that makes the 7 replicas? I guess that's close enough. But it'd be better to see Lotus in traditional, Jim Clark, color scheme.

Yeah the Caterham team now runs the old Lotus colours like in Collin Chapman's days. They were back in 2011 Team Lotus and ran Cosworth engines. But the Lotus name was given by court action to the Lotus Renault team. Again they chose to go back to the glory years for them of the late 70's and early 80's with the black and gold cars. Not a bad scheme over all IMO.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

Caterham formerly one of the Lotus teams. Two different corps were running as Lotus teams two years ago. A Judge ruled in favour of the current Lotus Renault (Black an Gold) team keeping its name. The other renamed to Caterham and kept the traditional Lotus colours. Lotus Renault team borrowed from back to the classic John Player colour scheme of the late 70's early 80's with Black and Gold. Remember Mario Andretti's WDC champion car back then?

That kind of sucks. Is this the same Caterham that makes the 7 replicas? I guess that's close enough. But it'd be better to see Lotus in traditional, Jim Clark, color scheme.

Yeah the Caterham team now runs the old Lotus colours like in Collin Chapman's days. They were back in 2011 Team Lotus and ran Cosworth engines. But the Lotus name was given by court action to the Lotus Renault team. Again they chose to go back to the glory years for them of the late 70's and early 80's with the black and gold cars. Not a bad scheme over all IMO.

Yes, I get that they still have some historic significant in the black and gold. Doesn't look as good, tough. At least not to my eye.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:Why aren't the Loti BRG with a yellow nose?

Caterham formerly one of the Lotus teams. Two different corps were running as Lotus teams two years ago. A Judge ruled in favour of the current Lotus Renault (Black an Gold) team keeping its name. The other renamed to Caterham and kept the traditional Lotus colours. Lotus Renault team borrowed from back to the classic John Player colour scheme of the late 70's early 80's with Black and Gold. Remember Mario Andretti's WDC champion car back then?

That kind of sucks. Is this the same Caterham that makes the 7 replicas? I guess that's close enough. But it'd be better to see Lotus in traditional, Jim Clark, color scheme.

Yeah the Caterham team now runs the old Lotus colours like in Collin Chapman's days. They were back in 2011 Team Lotus and ran Cosworth engines. But the Lotus name was given by court action to the Lotus Renault team. Again they chose to go back to the glory years for them of the late 70's and early 80's with the black and gold cars. Not a bad scheme over all IMO.

Yes, I get that they still have some historic significant in the black and gold. Doesn't look as good, tough. At least not to my eye.

I agree for the most part but lets face it all other teams compete in colour/paint for second best. McLaren has owned the best looking and painted cars in F1 since probably the 1970's. First with their Marlboro coloured cars and since the mid 90's their stylish silver and black with white and/or orange hi-lights cars.

The Lotus cars have been black and gold for a long time. I love the color scheme. I wasn't a big fan when they added the red in 2013 but it's growing on me.





The 2013 Caterham went with a brighter green and it looks fantastic. Very vivid; very vibrant. I like team Caterham but they are a tier three car and are usually battling Marussia for the last slots...



That's one of the things I love about F1, or racing in general. Most sports (football, hockey, baseball, etc) your team either wins or loses, but in racing it's easier to root for multiple drivers and teams.

Got the DVR set for practice, qualifying, and the race at Monaco. Also going to DVR and watch the FP2 guys. Can't wait!!!!

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:I like Alonso; I think he is extremely talented. If I were to name the three best drivers out there, I'd have to say Kimi, Alonso, and Hamilton. The Mercs have been struggling like mad on long runs, but Hamilton is still sitting in fourth place in points.

I am not a big fan of the Sauber Rossberg, Sergio Perez, or Vettel. I think they all drive like dicks, like they're the only ones on the track and everyone else can go f themselves. I think there is a big difference between that and a quality driver who will race you clean and still make passes (Hamilton, Button, Webber, etc).

Vettel is a good driver but I am sick of him being the poster boy for F1, and being treated as such. I think if you put him, Raikkonen, Alonso, and Hamilton in the exact same car with one set of tires and give them 20 laps (TT or race) he loses every time.

Vettel is the modern day Nelson Piquet. Over rated 3 time champion. Without Newey's Red Bull there would not have been any WDC's for Vettel.

Couldn't agree more.

Les, what do you think the odds are of Raikkonen going to RB next year? I hope he doesn't, but money talks and RB has a ton of it. I do know for sure Kimi wouldn't put up with Vettel's shit like Webber has/does.

Talon wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:I like Alonso; I think he is extremely talented. If I were to name the three best drivers out there, I'd have to say Kimi, Alonso, and Hamilton. The Mercs have been struggling like mad on long runs, but Hamilton is still sitting in fourth place in points.

I am not a big fan of the Sauber Rossberg, Sergio Perez, or Vettel. I think they all drive like dicks, like they're the only ones on the track and everyone else can go f themselves. I think there is a big difference between that and a quality driver who will race you clean and still make passes (Hamilton, Button, Webber, etc).

Vettel is a good driver but I am sick of him being the poster boy for F1, and being treated as such. I think if you put him, Raikkonen, Alonso, and Hamilton in the exact same car with one set of tires and give them 20 laps (TT or race) he loses every time.

Vettel is the modern day Nelson Piquet. Over rated 3 time champion. Without Newey's Red Bull there would not have been any WDC's for Vettel.

Couldn't agree more.

Les, what do you think the odds are of Raikkonen going to RB next year? I hope he doesn't, but money talks and RB has a ton of it. I do know for sure Kimi wouldn't put up with Vettel's shit like Webber has/does.

Good question.

I hope not. Kimi hopefully stays with Lotus as they do have a true challenger car that hopefully for him gets even better and he is able to overcome any of its weaknesses by his great talent. I guess it will come down to how much money RB wants to pay him. I will say this I bet if he did race at RB he'd show up Vettel greatly.

I miss Kimi with McLaren, those days are long gone but I still miss them when he drove for the team.

Alonso says what we're all thinking.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/alonso-suggests-red-bull-sound-sore-losers-161325680.html

Talon wrote:Alonso says what we're all thinking.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/alonso-suggests-red-bull-sound-sore-losers-161325680.html

I agree about RB whining, however it's not like Ferrari has not whined at times either. That said I personally hate the tires rules. I rather have the tire maker making the best tires possible and not this engineered degradation. I'm also 100% for tire competition allowing two or more makers to supply teams. This opens up the competition of races more so.

Really I wish much more of the Formula in Formula One would be more open.

Bring back refueling, tire manufacture competition, engine layout freedom (keep them 1.6L turbos) as in 4-6-8 cyl etc. Reduce aero grip and increase mechanical grip etc.

STOP THE G'DAMN GIMMICKS!

Hell bring back the 45 min. open qualifying concept (12 laps per driver total) Qualifying is getting a bit farcical now as the cars sit in their garages for many minutes in each segment. 45 min at 12 laps keeps qualifying going and if a back marker is on the track as top teams try for a pole or top of the grid slot and such TOO BAD that's life.

I went to an F1 race once... it just happened to be this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DRJWw0R_w

Talon wrote:I went to an F1 race once... it just happened to be this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DRJWw0R_w

Yeah a low point for F1 and one that did not have to be but for FIA bureaucracy. The race was watchable because of the farce it was.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:I went to an F1 race once... it just happened to be this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DRJWw0R_w

Yeah a low point for F1 and one that did not have to be but for FIA bureaucracy. The race was watchable because of the farce it was.

Haha I remember seeing that one. Hilarious. The only time Minardi got a podium, right? Or something like that.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Talon wrote:I went to an F1 race once... it just happened to be this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5DRJWw0R_w

Yeah a low point for F1 and one that did not have to be but for FIA bureaucracy. The race was watchable because of the farce it was.

Haha I remember seeing that one. Hilarious. The only time Minardi got a podium, right? Or something like that.

Na, it was Ferrari, Ferrari, Jordan. Probably Minardi's best finish in fifth and sixth.

It was extra annoying because the only three teams to participate, weren't really competition for each other. Ferrari was tier one; Jordan tier two; and Minadri tier three. So watching it live went something like this...

Ferrari, Ferrari............................................... Jordan, Jordan.....................................................Minardi, Minardi. There was no racing going on. Jordan was a lap behind the Ferraris and the Minadris were a lap behind the Jordans. I was all

Not that it's much of a consolation, but I did get my money back for the tickets.

GOD DAMN YOU PEREZ! That motherfucker ran his teammate off the track, ran Alonso off the track, hit Alonso, and hit Kimi.

I knew he was going to fuck up Kimi when he got in 6th. I called it and sure as shit he tried to stick his nose where it didn't belong and cost Kimi five places... surprised it wasn't more.

I can't believe the stewards let him pull that shit.

Talon wrote:GOD DAMN YOU PEREZ! That motherfucker ran his teammate off the track, ran Alonso off the track, hit Alonso, and hit Kimi.

I knew he was going to fuck up Kimi when he got in 6th. I called it and sure as shit he tried to stick his nose where it didn't belong and cost Kimi five places... surprised it wasn't more.

I can't believe the stewards let him pull that shit.

Yeah Perez is showing much inexperience and stupid driving. He better wise up or he wont drive for McLaren for too long. That said Kimi having been smacked by Perez fell back to 16th with mere laps to go but held his points scoring streak regaining 10th on the last lap. As I said the best driver in F1 is Raikkonen.

Will McLaren adopt red & white colour scheme once Honda becomes its engine supplier in 2015?

Most F1 fans agree McLaren  has  typically has the best looking F1 cars. Since going with Mercedes and post tobacco advertizing the team has adopted some form of silver, black with day glow red. But silver is not a colour synonymous with Honda Racing. On top of that many McLaren fans  generally liked their Marlboro coloured cars of the past. Now we can't see any Marlboro paint design but why not repeat  some classic looking red and white colour scheme? Something harmonious with the older McLaren look but not so much as to  look as if they are peddling  Marlboro  cigs. Just as long a it's classic and simple with not too much typically  over the top, faddish looking  paint designs  that motorsports (and other sports) tend to look today. In other words there is too much Photoshop looking logos and paint designs  but not enough classic  designs in colour schemes on all too many race cars today.

Just my 2 cents.

McLaren Mercedes look like shit. I hope they go back to orange/white.

I think McLaren Honda should get those guys on Counting Cars (History Channel!) to do the paint job - nothing but flaming skulls and horns.

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:McLaren Mercedes look like shit. I hope they go back to orange/white.

Well you'd probably be in the minority on the look of McLaren F1 cars in the last 15 odd years. Compared to most if not all of the other teams they have had the best overall look.

I doubt they will go back to the original Bruce McLaren type colours though. But I bet we will see white reintroduced to replace the silver that was typically a Mercedes colour.

But as I said, the old Marlboro colours looked simple but great, too bad we are not ever going to see that old scheme ever again.

thewalrus wrote:I think McLaren Honda should get those guys on Counting Cars (History Channel!) to do the paint job - nothing but flaming skulls and horns.

I like Counting Cars but I'd think Danny and the crew may be a bit over the top for an F1 paint scheme style. 

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:McLaren Mercedes look like shit. I hope they go back to orange/white.

Well you'd probably be in the minority on the look of McLaren F1 cars in the last 15 odd years. Compared to most if not all of the other teams they have had the best overall look.

Says the rabid McLaren fan:cheers: 

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

Pennzoil GT-R wrote:McLaren Mercedes look like shit. I hope they go back to orange/white.

Well you'd probably be in the minority on the look of McLaren F1 cars in the last 15 odd years. Compared to most if not all of the other teams they have had the best overall look.

Says the rabid McLaren fan:cheers: 

Rabid McLaren fan, true but I'm pretty confident even most non McLaren fans would agree.

Look at all the other teams over the last say 15 years and see that their car colours are either plain and boring or gaudy and even with some cars garish. Toyota was that last team to have a car that would have given McLaren a run in the best looking car competition.

Today after McLaren I'd have to say Lotus and Williams are the next best and Lotus is not as good now with the bigger splash of red mixed in with black and gold. Ferrari use to be better but their red is now different than long ago and their car look lacks flare now. Caterham is a top looking team though. RB and Torro both are annoyingly busy and garish IMO. The rest are all also rans to the point that nobody can easily recall for the most part.