Really ford? Really?!

The Town Car is going to get discountinued. The car is basically a dinousaur, so it makes sense getting rid of it.

But wait, it was the Lincoln flagship. And the livery industry thrived on Town Cars. Why did they let the car age so badly? And why did they kill it off rather than redesigning it?

I'm sure they could have kept the car ancient while still being acceptable (look at the mustang, no independent rear suspension and it still kicks ass). Or what about just lowering the town car's price? I never understook why a car with a 1980 platform costs 50K.

But anyway, this is not my point. My point is that you'd have thought that Lincoln had a plan for the car's succession right? Something to give the livery companies instead of town cars. Their answer is... this piece of crap: http://media.lincoln.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=33683

Yeah, they're planning to substitute a sober-looking,V8, huge, RWD luxury car with a floaty ride (this is exactly what livery services want) with a whale-looking, PT-Cruiser shaped, 4 or 6 cylinder crossover with a choppy ride. Anything would have been a better choice. Why not the MKS? Why not the Navigator? Even a Taurus would have been a better choice.

Livery services will flock to Chrysler 300's (especially with their bentley-ish or art deco-ish looks and size), SUV limos and even toyotas before this piece of *****.

Why didn't lincoln just discontinue the Town Car and called the MKS Town Car anyway?

Fleet sales don't have very high margins. Next question.

1980 cars cost a lot to build. They are full of stupid little brackets from years of refreshing. They crash horribly. They have to be built in a factory that only builds body on frame cars.

Honestly, they're going with something they already have, instead of making something new. They don't even have a large car in Austrailia that they could steal like GM does.

Yeah the MKT is ugly, but the car is easy to get out of and the last time I checked, most limos nowadays are SUV based. Lincoln is still lost in the world of luxury. They need to find their way.

i assume the falcon doesn't count as a big car?

ascona wrote:i assume the falcon doesn't count as a big car?

Not in America, and not as far as the Town Car is concerned. The Town Car is almost 70 cm longer, almost 13 cm wider, and its wheelbase is 30 cm longer.

lol @ using cm

And we don't get the Falcon anyway.

Well, lets see how much of a flop the Taurus Police Interceptor is.... maybe Ford will get smart like GM and bring over the Falcon like GM is bringing over the Caprice.

I mean, a twin turbo V6 FWD based police car? Really Ford? REALLY!?!

The twin-turbo V6 I can get behind, as it puts out way more power and torque than the V8 in the CVPI. The FWD thing is pretty inexcusable, though.

Fwd sucks. It should be limited to low power economy cars. The mazdaspeed 3 is significantly slower than the wrx despite having a comparable power/weight ratio.

With 99% of police departments, they're more worried about reliability and ease of maintenance. Yeah, it's fast as balls and good in the snowz0rz, but good luck when that thing starts poppin' PTOs and turbo seals.

Im not going to beat on it though, gonna baby it fo shizzle. Not to say I wont push it, because of course I will. But not every time I drive it.

I would love to see a Falcon here. They should build them here to drive down the cost, have n/a and turbo I-N-L-I-N-E 6, optional V8, manual transmission across the board, and you're talking. Fuck the Fusion, this can take it's place.


I'm sick of the American Auto market. They design and make stupid decisions about everything because of our lazy, fat ass, boring demographic. Manual transmissions are becoming extinct faster than some animal species did, we have to get the lame-ass versions of awesome euro and jap cars, and we have really lame safety standards because they make it too easy to a license.

SBF wrote:I would love to see a Falcon here. They should build them here to drive down the cost, have n/a and turbo I-N-L-I-N-E 6, optional V8, manual transmission across the board, and you're talking. Fuck the Fusion, this can take it's place.


I'm sick of the American Auto market. They design and make stupid decisions about everything because of our lazy, fat ass, boring demographic. Manual transmissions are becoming extinct faster than some animal species did, we have to get the lame-ass versions of awesome euro and jap cars, and we have really lame safety standards because they make it too easy to a license.

I would suggest that you give up. Anger and frustration won't get you anywhere. I've resigned myself to the fact that lightweight, dimensionally small, manual transmission cars that are fun to drive are a thing of the past. They aren't coming back. Ever. Cars are getting heavier, fatter, technologically more sophisticated, safer, more efficient and less exciting. And the trend is spreading overseas, it isn't shrinking, or in any sort of North America based stasis.

I've accepted that, and you should too. I've accepted the fact that my next car will probably be my last with a stick shift. I've accepted the fact that new cars will only be available with an automatic sooner rather than later. My guess is within 10 years the traditional stick shift will be completely gone. So called 'sporty' cars will be equipped with some version of a clutchless manual / SMG / Tiptronic bullshit. Something that gives you the appearance of real control while microprocessors micromanage everything. Sports cars will have more in common with video games than with real, honest to God machinery. By the time I hit my 40th or 50th birthday my guess is I'll have already driven a genuine stick shift for the last time.

This is also why I've become far less interested in cars over the last little while. There's really no point anymore. Cars, generally, are moving away from what I used to love about being a car guy. They are absolutely utensils to me now. I've had to find other interests as a result, interests that aren't withering and dieing before my very eyes.

funny story: mazda 2 1.5 with optional "weight reduction pack"

weighs fuckall, should go better than the 1.3 with full weight package i'm running at the moment, and should handle like a fucknig brick on rails

god i wish i had the 1.5....
and i migh tdo a "weight rediction conversion" too... one day... but first sell the caddy...

JaysonAych wrote:The twin-turbo V6 I can get behind, as it puts out way more power and torque than the V8 in the CVPI. The FWD thing is pretty inexcusable, though.

er...I thought the Interceptor was AWD. It is based on the SHO, isn't it? I mean granted it's still front-biased AWD, but then so is an Evo...

thewalrus wrote:

SBF wrote:I would love to see a Falcon here. They should build them here to drive down the cost, have n/a and turbo I-N-L-I-N-E 6, optional V8, manual transmission across the board, and you're talking. Fuck the Fusion, this can take it's place.


I'm sick of the American Auto market. They design and make stupid decisions about everything because of our lazy, fat ass, boring demographic. Manual transmissions are becoming extinct faster than some animal species did, we have to get the lame-ass versions of awesome euro and jap cars, and we have really lame safety standards because they make it too easy to a license.

I would suggest that you give up. Anger and frustration won't get you anywhere. I've resigned myself to the fact that lightweight, dimensionally small, manual transmission cars that are fun to drive are a thing of the past. They aren't coming back. Ever. Cars are getting heavier, fatter, technologically more sophisticated, safer, more efficient and less exciting. And the trend is spreading overseas, it isn't shrinking, or in any sort of North America based stasis.

I've accepted that, and you should too. I've accepted the fact that my next car will probably be my last with a stick shift. I've accepted the fact that new cars will only be available with an automatic sooner rather than later. My guess is within 10 years the traditional stick shift will be completely gone. So called 'sporty' cars will be equipped with some version of a clutchless manual / SMG / Tiptronic bullshit. Something that gives you the appearance of real control while microprocessors micromanage everything. Sports cars will have more in common with video games than with real, honest to God machinery. By the time I hit my 40th or 50th birthday my guess is I'll have already driven a genuine stick shift for the last time.

This is also why I've become far less interested in cars over the last little while. There's really no point anymore. Cars, generally, are moving away from what I used to love about being a car guy. They are absolutely utensils to me now. I've had to find other interests as a result, interests that aren't withering and dieing before my very eyes.

While I understand where you are coming from, I'm gonna burn myself out, I don't care. Most of the cars built overseas are still available as a manual base model, even sportier models have manuals. All the DSG/SMG/TPK bullshit is going in higher end stuff and yes will eventually weed into cheaper base models as time goes by. Realtime world driving shows that Manual transmissions still will do better than their automatic counterpart in the MPG game.

While you have given up, I am still a true car guy to the bone. I will gripe, bitch, write letters, and piss on corporate buildings until I die. It's sad that the only American cars that interest me are the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, Charger, 300, Viper, Sierra, and Ram.

I agree wally. Im looking forward so much to the wrx because it is an enthusiasts car and driving it will actually be enjoyable and exhilarating. Driving around in a car like an automatic sentra feels like one step above using a toaster.

Turbojett wrote:

JaysonAych wrote:The twin-turbo V6 I can get behind, as it puts out way more power and torque than the V8 in the CVPI. The FWD thing is pretty inexcusable, though.

er...I thought the Interceptor was AWD. It is based on the SHO, isn't it? I mean granted it's still front-biased AWD, but then so is an Evo...

They make 3 different versions. 3.5L FWD, 3.5L AWD, and Ecoboost 3.5L AWD.

I'm going more and more to the wally side of things, especially since other aspects of my life now are way more exciting than having a fast car.

My life is boring.

Fords are boring.

If i want a new truck that can tow, i like the idea of the ecoboost V6. But i have to spend nearly 50K at Dodge as they are the only ones that still make a full size truck in a manual trans.

What the Ram? I thought they finally dropped the manual. I know you could get a V6 6-Speed truck, but they dropped it with the new model. I'm pretty sure theres no Manual/V8 truck.

Also, the newest Ford trucks are ugly.

They have a new ST package. Hemi and manual. Body colored grille/bumper. Cheap, too.

That's right I did hear about that. Now we need a Lil' Red Express Truck with a real stepside bed

Turbofrog wrote:Fleet sales don't have very high margins. Next question.

You didn't really read my post did you?

My point is that lincoln slapped the "town car" name on the worst possible vehicle in their lineup to substitute the town car in fleet sales (or one of the worst two, anyway). They should should have used the mks... or navigator (think about it, body-on-frame) or even the MKZ.

SBF wrote:Honestly, they're going with something they already have, instead of making something new. They don't even have a large car in Austrailia that they could steal like GM does.

Yeah the MKT is ugly, but the car is easy to get out of and the last time I checked, most limos nowadays are SUV based. Lincoln is still lost in the world of luxury. They need to find their way.

They could have used the navigator or MKS... they're far more suitable.

It's sad to see that lincoln started the "yes can do" attitude back when lincoln and caddy were in the slump, with its LS. Instead of keeping on the good work, they crawled back into being a joke while caddy caught up and then surpassed them...

thewalrus wrote:

SBF wrote:I would love to see a Falcon here. They should build them here to drive down the cost, have n/a and turbo I-N-L-I-N-E 6, optional V8, manual transmission across the board, and you're talking. Fuck the Fusion, this can take it's place.


I'm sick of the American Auto market. They design and make stupid decisions about everything because of our lazy, fat ass, boring demographic. Manual transmissions are becoming extinct faster than some animal species did, we have to get the lame-ass versions of awesome euro and jap cars, and we have really lame safety standards because they make it too easy to a license.

I would suggest that you give up. Anger and frustration won't get you anywhere. I've resigned myself to the fact that lightweight, dimensionally small, manual transmission cars that are fun to drive are a thing of the past. They aren't coming back. Ever. Cars are getting heavier, fatter, technologically more sophisticated, safer, more efficient and less exciting. And the trend is spreading overseas, it isn't shrinking, or in any sort of North America based stasis.

I've accepted that, and you should too. I've accepted the fact that my next car will probably be my last with a stick shift. I've accepted the fact that new cars will only be available with an automatic sooner rather than later. My guess is within 10 years the traditional stick shift will be completely gone. So called 'sporty' cars will be equipped with some version of a clutchless manual / SMG / Tiptronic bullshit. Something that gives you the appearance of real control while microprocessors micromanage everything. Sports cars will have more in common with video games than with real, honest to God machinery. By the time I hit my 40th or 50th birthday my guess is I'll have already driven a genuine stick shift for the last time.

This is also why I've become far less interested in cars over the last little while. There's really no point anymore. Cars, generally, are moving away from what I used to love about being a car guy. They are absolutely utensils to me now. I've had to find other interests as a result, interests that aren't withering and dieing before my very eyes.

I dunno. I think there will always be a market for the sports car. They will get more technologically advanced, and there will be less selection, but I am keeping my hopes up for still owning a sports car when I am 50.

The_Edge wrote:

SBF wrote:Honestly, they're going with something they already have, instead of making something new. They don't even have a large car in Austrailia that they could steal like GM does.

Yeah the MKT is ugly, but the car is easy to get out of and the last time I checked, most limos nowadays are SUV based. Lincoln is still lost in the world of luxury. They need to find their way.

They could have used the navigator or MKS... they're far more suitable.

It's sad to see that lincoln started the "yes can do" attitude back when lincoln and caddy were in the slump, with its LS. Instead of keeping on the good work, they crawled back into being a joke while caddy caught up and then surpassed them...

If you get down to the nitty gritty, Ford just doesn't give a shit about Lincoln. They are not letting them be their own entity like GM has done with Cadillac. The thing about a luxury car company is that they are supposed to be innovative. Lincoln is only about style, no new gadgetry to eventually dwindle down into the blue collar cars. Cadillac Does it, Mercedes Does it, BMW does it, but not Lincoln.

Also, while yes a Navigator would be ideal for a limo, but in all honestly, it's ugly as fuck. They tried to do this vintage Continental "grille" which didn't come out right and ended up looking like a HorseFly.

The MKS is considered full size. Problem is, it's still a Taurus underneath it all. What they could do (like how Cadillac has done it) is sell a special limo model that is meant to be hacked up and have beefier suspension and drivetrain components.

Lincoln needs to get with the program, better yet, Ford need to get with the program.

My girlfriend's sister was just bought a Lincoln MKX by her husband. It's bad enough to blow 50 grand on a car in the US. But it's even worse when you buy that car, rather than one of the many awesome alternatives available over there.

Honestly, Lincoln is the old Cadillac. Only old people buy Lincolns now. They're lush overweight front drivers and they have one SUV that the hip younger "hip hop" crowd likes.

thewalrus wrote:I would suggest that you give up. Anger and frustration won't get you anywhere. I've resigned myself to the fact that lightweight, dimensionally small, manual transmission cars that are fun to drive are a thing of the past. They aren't coming back. Ever. Cars are getting heavier, fatter, technologically more sophisticated, safer, more efficient and less exciting. And the trend is spreading overseas, it isn't shrinking, or in any sort of North America based stasis.

This is also why I've become far less interested in cars over the last little while. There's really no point anymore. Cars, generally, are moving away from what I used to love about being a car guy. They are absolutely utensils to me now. I've had to find other interests as a result, interests that aren't withering and dieing before my very eyes.

I confess I am in a similar boat, but hold hope, as most manufacturers are starting to really embrace saving weight as a way to aid fuel economy efforts. The bloat may finally be subsiding. And there are very few cars that get my juices flowing anymore. Vintage iron is cool, but as a married man with a little daughter, the MX-5 is no longer on the list. The only "fun cars" out there for me at the moment seem to be the Mazda 2, 3 and the Fiat 500 Abarth. I need slow cars that are fun to drive fast. Those seem to be about it...

If you get the Mazda 2 does that mean you also get the Fiesta? I don't mind it and the Swift. The Clio and Megane are also cool, but Dunnas can tell you about French quality.

Swerve wrote:If you get the Mazda 2 does that mean you also get the Fiesta? I don't mind it and the Swift. The Clio and Megane are also cool, but Dunnas can tell you about French quality.

We get the Fiesta, but only the 5-door and a 4-door sedan (which I have never seen in person). The 3-door isn't on Ford's North American menu.