Are there any affordable V6 midsize sedans?

With a manual transmission. I've been looking but haven't really seen anything. I've looked both at the Kia Optima and Hyundai Sonata and they don't have a manual past a 4-cyl.

Define affordable.

Below $25k with reasonable options.

I did a bit of looking around...I didn't see a single one that offered one with a stick.

Used CTS, Mazda 6, subarus, thats really all i can think of now, nothing new.

used g35

1300ZUK wrote:Used CTS, Mazda 6, subarus, thats really all i can think of now, nothing new.

Can't get a subaru with a V6 silly. And can't get the flat six with a stick.

But yeah, I vote Mazda6.

This question was brought to me by a friend who wants a new car. I figured there weren't any because car companies suck and they don't do anything that may please people.

no they don't exist because there are only 5 people in the united states that want a midsize V6 car with a manual, so it's not worth the engineering efforts to make one.

Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

1300ZUK wrote:

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

I disagree. I believe it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

I disagree. I believe it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

What the fuck do you know about Vehicle Engineering?

1300ZUK wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

I disagree. I believe it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

What the fuck do you know about Vehicle Engineering?

Enough to know that it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

I disagree. I believe it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

What the fuck do you know about Vehicle Engineering?

Enough to know that it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

oh okay.

1300ZUK wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:

SBF wrote:Well they used to exist and with gas prices they way they are I would think they would be around. If this shit is in other countries I just cant see why it couldn't be here.

They don't have cars suited for the american market to sell here. It's alot more complicated than you think it is.

I disagree. I believe it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

What the fuck do you know about Vehicle Engineering?

Enough to know that it's a lot less complicated than you think it is.

oh okay.

I'm glad you agree.

Well how aren't their cars suited for the American market? In Europe they pretty much have the same cars (japanese and european) plus more models. The models we have in common are relatively the same cars, but it seems theirs have more engine/trans options if anything. If safety is the issue, they pretty much have the same safety equipment that we do. They like to throw down emissions as another reason that we can't have certain models of existing cars we have here too.

Why the fuck don't we have Diesel Accords and Camrys yet? Why the fuck don't we have smaller displacement diesels for our SUVs and Small trucks yet? Several countries have that and have HAD that technology already in other counties for years.

OH I FORGOT WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND WE HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD!!!!!

I get tired of hearing that Euro, Australian, and Japanese spec models aren't suited for the US Market.

If people would but them when they do actually introduce them here, then yes. But nobody buys them or at least not enough to warrant more of them.

BMW, MB and VW all sell Diesels in the States, relatively speaking they sell very few models. So why would they want to spend all that money on more capacity to build them if they can't sell all they make now?

Same goes for Manual Transmission, if one doesn't exist they have to design, build, prove it to be worthy before they can actually start making them. The car typically has to have different transmission mounts (again more Tooling and testing), a redesigned dash subframe to support the additional pedal, in some cases the whole underbody of the car may need redesigned to allow for the third pedal and changing floor pans is not cheap. The car needs several different computers and modules, hell even the stupid Navigation unit has to have different software for when it first starts up with the warning message. The Factories where the car is made have to be tooled to build both AT and MT models. It simply doesn't make economic sense for them to build more models with manual transmissions. Couple that with emission controls and stability systems and you just are never going to see readily available Manual transmissions.

And i fucking hate automatics, but there is no point in covering up that the manual is dead in non-purist cars.

That is why i'm curious to see how the European Focus and Fiesta do here, as cars that originated outside of the US typically do horribly. Contour, Catera, GTO, G8, Opels. Even the "imports" Camry and Accord are strictly sold in the north american market, they are designed for americans not Japanese or Europeans.

1300ZUK wrote:
Same goes for Manual Transmission, if one doesn't exist they have to design, build, prove it to be worthy before they can actually start making them. The car typically has to have different transmission mounts (again more Tooling and testing), a redesigned dash subframe to support the additional pedal, in some cases the whole underbody of the car may need redesigned to allow for the third pedal and changing floor pans is not cheap. The car needs several different computers and modules, hell even the stupid Navigation unit has to have different software for when it first starts up with the warning message. The Factories where the car is made have to be tooled to build both AT and MT models. It simply doesn't make economic sense for them to build more models with manual transmissions. Couple that with emission controls and stability systems and you just are never going to see readily available Manual transmissions.

Whoa, where did you get that from? Any car that has a manual transmission option is built and designed as a manual first. Then the automatic is then designed to work with what space is open and available, then changes are made to accommodate the extra width and external parts of an automatic. Most cars that have both auto and manual options are built to accommodate both. Cars' floorpans are not changed for a third pedal, if anything its for and automatic. If you get up under a dash in an auto car that has an optional manual, you will see that the mounting holes or studs are in the firewall for the clutch pedal. Also you will see that there are either knock-out plugs or just rubbers plugs in the hole(s) associated with the clutch master cylinder. You will also notice that the brake pedal bracket is exactly the same, only that it has a different sized pedal and a lockout mechanism for the shifter in an auto car.

I have to be honest, I really don't think that the manual transmission has much of a future, aside from, as Zuk mentioned, enthusiast cars. They really aren't any more efficient than the newest autos / CVTs from what I've heard, and, frankly, so few people are learning to use one as a part of drivers ed that only people who actually want to learn one will bother.

I want cars that drive themselves god damn it. Masturbating and drinking on the way to your destination is better than getting pissed off because some woman in an SUV is braking on straightaways with no traffic.

1300ZUK wrote:That is why i'm curious to see how the European Focus and Fiesta do here, as cars that originated outside of the US typically do horribly. Contour, Catera, GTO, G8, Opels. Even the "imports" Camry and Accord are strictly sold in the north american market, they are designed for americans not Japanese or Europeans.

The Contour did horribly because they gave us a body shell and we put our own shit in it so it was a lower price than what it would have really cost if it were an imported Mondeo.

The Catera was plagued with problems to begin with (mostly electrical) and once again that car wasn't sold in many variations and in no way could compete with sedans in its class.

The GTO only did horribly because it was too expensive and sold to a small market.

The G8 would have been brilliant and a wise idea if they were to build that car here (not as a Pontiac), sell it in several models, and been a little more affordable for the masses.

As for the Opels, right now the only one worth buying would be the Saturn Astra, but as our American end of the spectrum likes to do, they only sold it with one engine and lousy options.

I think instead of importing them and slapping the badges on them from our companies the should retool some of these plants and start building some of these cars here.

thewalrus wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't think that the manual transmission has much of a future, aside from, as Zuk mentioned, enthusiast cars. They really aren't any more efficient than the newest autos / CVTs from what I've heard, and, frankly, so few people are learning to use one as a part of drivers ed that only people who actually want to learn one will bother.

CVT transmissions can kiss my ass. If I wanted to drive a snowmobile, I'll go drive a motherfucking snowmobile.

As for the no future of the manual transmission, that's the future in this country because, this country has turned into a cesspool of lazy fuckers that don't want to go anywhere in life except play PS3 all fucking day.

The manual transmission seems to still be popular in many other countries.

SBF wrote:

thewalrus wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't think that the manual transmission has much of a future, aside from, as Zuk mentioned, enthusiast cars. They really aren't any more efficient than the newest autos / CVTs from what I've heard, and, frankly, so few people are learning to use one as a part of drivers ed that only people who actually want to learn one will bother.

CVT transmissions can kiss my ass. If I wanted to drive a snowmobile, I'll go drive a motherfucking snowmobile.

As for the no future of the manual transmission, that's the future in this country because, this country has turned into a cesspool of lazy fuckers that don't want to go anywhere in life except play PS3 all fucking day.

The manual transmission seems to still be popular in many other countries.

I don't think that not wanting a manual transmission is a result of laziness, I think that it's simply a part of our car culture. We have whole generations who've only learned on automatics.

thewalrus wrote:

SBF wrote:

thewalrus wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't think that the manual transmission has much of a future, aside from, as Zuk mentioned, enthusiast cars. They really aren't any more efficient than the newest autos / CVTs from what I've heard, and, frankly, so few people are learning to use one as a part of drivers ed that only people who actually want to learn one will bother.

CVT transmissions can kiss my ass. If I wanted to drive a snowmobile, I'll go drive a motherfucking snowmobile.

As for the no future of the manual transmission, that's the future in this country because, this country has turned into a cesspool of lazy fuckers that don't want to go anywhere in life except play PS3 all fucking day.

The manual transmission seems to still be popular in many other countries.

I don't think that not wanting a manual transmission is a result of laziness, I think that it's simply a part of our car culture. We have whole generations who've only learned on automatics.

While this is true, I still think we live in a cesspool of lazy fuckers.

SBF wrote:

1300ZUK wrote:
Same goes for Manual Transmission, if one doesn't exist they have to design, build, prove it to be worthy before they can actually start making them. The car typically has to have different transmission mounts (again more Tooling and testing), a redesigned dash subframe to support the additional pedal, in some cases the whole underbody of the car may need redesigned to allow for the third pedal and changing floor pans is not cheap. The car needs several different computers and modules, hell even the stupid Navigation unit has to have different software for when it first starts up with the warning message. The Factories where the car is made have to be tooled to build both AT and MT models. It simply doesn't make economic sense for them to build more models with manual transmissions. Couple that with emission controls and stability systems and you just are never going to see readily available Manual transmissions.

Whoa, where did you get that from? Any car that has a manual transmission option is built and designed as a manual first. Then the automatic is then designed to work with what space is open and available, then changes are made to accommodate the extra width and external parts of an automatic. Most cars that have both auto and manual options are built to accommodate both. Cars' floorpans are not changed for a third pedal, if anything its for and automatic. If you get up under a dash in an auto car that has an optional manual, you will see that the mounting holes or studs are in the firewall for the clutch pedal. Also you will see that there are either knock-out plugs or just rubbers plugs in the hole(s) associated with the clutch master cylinder. You will also notice that the brake pedal bracket is exactly the same, only that it has a different sized pedal and a lockout mechanism for the shifter in an auto car.

well you kind of answered your own question there, a lot of newer cars/trucks are not really designed around a Manual, so making them accommodate a manual would be tough. And although they may have been designed originally with a Manual that doesn't mean over time things haven't moved around thus making it impossible to make it a manual.

SBF wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

SBF wrote:

thewalrus wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't think that the manual transmission has much of a future, aside from, as Zuk mentioned, enthusiast cars. They really aren't any more efficient than the newest autos / CVTs from what I've heard, and, frankly, so few people are learning to use one as a part of drivers ed that only people who actually want to learn one will bother.

CVT transmissions can kiss my ass. If I wanted to drive a snowmobile, I'll go drive a motherfucking snowmobile.

As for the no future of the manual transmission, that's the future in this country because, this country has turned into a cesspool of lazy fuckers that don't want to go anywhere in life except play PS3 all fucking day.

The manual transmission seems to still be popular in many other countries.

I don't think that not wanting a manual transmission is a result of laziness, I think that it's simply a part of our car culture. We have whole generations who've only learned on automatics.

While this is true, I still think we live in a cesspool of lazy fuckers.

Yeah, it's true. I'm so glad I learned manual. I guess my escort wagon was good for something.

WRX/mazda 6/used bmw 3 series/Older passats with the manual/A4/A6/cobalt SS/I knwo some volvo's had stick/g35/is 300/maxima's/altimas/4 cycl accords

milleniahead wrote:4 cycl accords

:jay:

cobalt SS=turbo 4-cylinder, compact (really sub-midsize), coupe.

Turbojett wrote:cobalt SS=turbo 4-cylinder, compact (really sub-midsize), coupe.

You can get the Cobalt SS Sedan too.

yeah, i keep forgetting about those. I still think it should be coupe only. sedan doesn't feel right to me for some reason.

I don't have a problem with the sedan...there are a lot of fast European and Japanese 4-doors in that size. I just wish the exterior wasn't so...Cobalty.

the exterior is probably the best part of the car, design wise.
...On the coupe anyway. The rear of the sedan still looks like a fuckin' Neon.

Actually to be honest, I like the Cobalt SS sedan, one because I like fast sedans, two because I see too many souped up SS coupes around here.

I actually hadn't seen it in that dark red before I posted that pick. I kinda dig it in that color.

Turbojett wrote:the exterior is probably the best part of the car, design wise.
...On the coupe anyway. The rear of the sedan still looks like a fuckin' Neon.

When it came out, it looked like just a facelifted Cavalier, rather than an all-new car that would replace it. It just seemed dated the moment it came out. I think if the rear end was improved, that would go a long way toward helping the rest of the car, though, because that rear end is hideous.

But I think the interior was executed much better than the exterior.

Now if they do an SS version of the Cruze, I might be down for that.