Looks like I'll be buying a PS4

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Anyone who buys XBOX ONE with all the invasive crap and restrictions deserves the proverbial  rape and beating down of your liberties and rights. If gamers want to send Microsoft a REAL  MESSAGE having them see ZERO SALES would do it.

BUT! The sheep  will buy into it all so I have little faith.

Not sure how this is an infringement on liberties and rights.  Liberties and rights, as construed under, say, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or the Bill of Rights only function as against a Government Actor.  Microsoft is not a government actor, or agent, and therefore the Charter and the Bill of Rights would not bind them in any way.  There may be invasion of privacy concerns here, at least from a private law stand point, though I'm sure by buying the device and consenting to the terms of use you're consenting to any breaches of privacy which would attend with the usage of the device.  Indeed, there are pleanty of other examples of corporations having access to, and indeed monitoring, the comings and goings of their customers.  Apple with its iPhone is a prime example.

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Anyone who buys XBOX ONE with all the invasive crap and restrictions deserves the proverbial  rape and beating down of your liberties and rights. If gamers want to send Microsoft a REAL  MESSAGE having them see ZERO SALES would do it.

BUT! The sheep  will buy into it all so I have little faith.

Not sure how this is an infringement on liberties and rights.  Liberties and rights, as construed under, say, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or the Bill of Rights only function as against a Government Actor.  Microsoft is not a government actor, or agent, and therefore the Charter and the Bill of Rights would not bind them in any way.  There may be invasion of privacy concerns here, at least from a private law stand point, though I'm sure by buying the device and consenting to the terms of use you're consenting to any breaches of privacy which would attend with the usage of the device.  Indeed, there are pleanty of other examples of corporations having access to, and indeed monitoring, the comings and goings of their customers.  Apple with its iPhone is a prime example.

Yes, I see what you are stating but I think you know what I mean. Fact is  companies  such as Microsoft  are defacto  agents to the  US govt. Look up "Prism" for one point. Gamers who buy XBOX ONE   are willfully  giving up privacy  and  are allowing what can/look to be terrible intrusions. On top of that    all this data WILL not MAY  be surrendered to the various  US govt. bureaucratic agencies.

But again  most  buyers here  could not care any less... However it will be famous last words.

It's one thing to  not knowingly be spied on, it's another to willfully  give up  your personal info and in the case of corporatacracy  such as this from Microsoft   for the  said to pleasure of   some gaming fun.

Consider also your Facebook pages (and other similar social sites) If anyone here does not think the  CIA, FBI, NSA, ATF, DEA etc. are not actively  inside these social sites and accruing info by  willful giving by the user  and   also by  having the companies surrender  other info, well then I  have  some ocean front property to sell you in Iowa.

The world is in and will enter only into  darker  and darker days.

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Anyone who buys XBOX ONE with all the invasive crap and restrictions deserves the proverbial  rape and beating down of your liberties and rights. If gamers want to send Microsoft a REAL  MESSAGE having them see ZERO SALES would do it.

BUT! The sheep  will buy into it all so I have little faith.

Not sure how this is an infringement on liberties and rights.  Liberties and rights, as construed under, say, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or the Bill of Rights only function as against a Government Actor.  Microsoft is not a government actor, or agent, and therefore the Charter and the Bill of Rights would not bind them in any way.  There may be invasion of privacy concerns here, at least from a private law stand point, though I'm sure by buying the device and consenting to the terms of use you're consenting to any breaches of privacy which would attend with the usage of the device.  Indeed, there are pleanty of other examples of corporations having access to, and indeed monitoring, the comings and goings of their customers.  Apple with its iPhone is a prime example.

Yes, I see what you are stating but I think you know what I mean. Fact is  companies  such as Microsoft  are defacto  agents to the  US govt. Look up "Prism" for one point. Gamers who buy XBOX ONE   are willfully  giving up privacy  and  are allowing what can/look to be terrible intrusions. On top of that    all this data WILL not MAY  be surrendered to the various  US govt. bureaucratic agencies.

But again  most  buyers here  could not care any less... However it will be famous last words.

It's one thing to  not knowingly be spied on, it's another to willfully  give up  your personal info and in the case of corporatacracy  such as this from Microsoft   for the  said to pleasure of   some gaming fun.

Consider also your Facebook pages (and other similar social sites) If anyone here does not think the  CIA, FBI, NSA, ATF, DEA etc. are not actively  inside these social sites and accruing info by  willful giving by the user  and   also by  having the companies surrender  other info, well then I  have  some ocean front property to sell you in Iowa.

The world is in and will enter only into  darker  and darker days.

Still not sure what the big deal is.  When the government starts snooping around my personal, private computer - then I'll have some issues with it.  For the record, the courts have rigorously defended an individuals right to be safe from unwarranted computer searches. Facebook, online sites, networking sites, and everything like that is public information.  Doesn't matter if it's password protected and your security filters are set to the highest level possible.  If you go in thinking anything else you're an idiot, and you deserve to have people, corporations and governments learning things about you that you don't want them to know - remember, for instance, all those Vancouver riot idiots who decided it was a good idea to post images of themselves committing crimes online.  They were caught, and rightly so. 

The point is simple.  If you voluntarily surrender your right to privacy, you don't have a right to complain when anyone takes advantage of that.  Microscoft is very forthcoming about what this x-box does.  If you don't want the possibility of the information they glean being used (a) By them (b) by the government (c) sold to other corporations, then your choice is really, really simple, and mindnumbingly obvious - don't buy an X-Box.

This is precisely the same as a case from the 9th Circuit I read in Law School.

Guy wants to take an airplane flight.  He tries to go through security and they search him.  Turns out he has some weed on him and he gets busted.  Convicted.  Set to jail.  He makes a 4th Amendment claim - unreasonable search and seizure.  Asserts that the evidence should be thrown out.

The court, wisely in my view, throws out that argument.  You aren't being forced to go through security.  If you want to avoid the search and seizure, you have options - namely, you don't board the plane.  You don't have a fundamental right to take an airplane flight.  You don't have a fundamental right to play on an x-box. You don't have a fundamental right to a Facebook account. If you don't like, or want the compromises to personal, possibly sensitive, information that are entailed by those activities, then you don't have to accept them.

Wally.

You miss the point. Mass vacuuming up of all online and telephone info even without reason or cause IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL in this case the USA. The 4th Amendment is quite clear. The rights are inalienable. The fact that nobody MAY be reading your online info or listening to your phone calls (this is dubious at best) is irrelevant. They are fully able to get into these things at anytime they may want to check you out and or view you as a possible suspect you rightly or wrongly. You are unwittingly self-incriminating yourself by each and every actin you do on the phone or online.

FISA courts are NOT holding your rights, they are allowing this stuff to go mostly unchallenged.

But, but, but, you got nothin to worry about if you ain't done nothin wrong! Ahhh yes, famous last words by IDIOTS!

First each and everyday, ALL OF US have or are likely in contravention of some laws or bylaws. So yes we are all in contravention of these often overbearing and/or silly laws and bylaws and can come under the scrutiny and often ill-founded or vindictive of some asshole govt bureaucrat or other thug. The govt under some vendetta or such can then go back in reality in time and all the info they proverbially vacuumed up on you via the net and the phones you use and use this info AGAINST YOU!

DON'T THINK BIG BROTHER HAS NOT AND IS NOT DOING THIS STUFF!

The IRS has been under the pressure of the Executive Branch going after Tea Party groups and other groups who use the word "Patriot" in their names. This is a violation of the law but the sheep just can't be bothered or much like you sound here excuse it and stuff like it IMO out of ignorance.

But again Les, if you are not doing anything wrong why worry? Hey folks my reply to such idiot logic is this.

If you are as you say not doing anything wrong why worry about govt. snooping, well then I ask you to go to any authority of you choose and ask them to wire your house up with cameras and microphone and watch you as you go about your living in the home. After all you ain't doin nothin wrong right? So who cares? Well, how many of you people would say for the state to wire up their homes for surveillance without cause nor warrant?

Come on, lets be real. Most if not all crime originates in a person(s) house. If the prying eyes of the state can just watch and listen to us all the time then we will be safer RIGHT!?!

WRONG YOU FOOLS! Who then protects us from fallible and often vindictive govt. officials especially those with badges.

No, too many of us in the so called FREE WEST (HAH WHAT A JOKE THAT HAS BECOME) need to live in a police state I guess to see what we are PISSING AWAY.

Time to check out the vidya game thr-

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:Wally.

You miss the point. Mass vacuuming up of all online and telephone info even without reason or cause IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL in this case the USA. The 4th Amendment is quite clear.  The rights are inalienable. The fact that  nobody MAY be reading your online info  or listening to your phone calls  (this is dubious at best)  is irrelevant. They are fully able to get into these things at anytime they may want to check you out and or view you as a possible suspect you rightly or wrongly. You are unwittingly self-incriminating  yourself by each and every actin   you do on the phone or online.

FISA courts are NOT holding your rights, they are allowing this stuff to go mostly unchallenged.

But, but,  but, you got nothin to worry about if you ain't done nothin wrong! Ahhh yes, famous last words by IDIOTS!

First each and everyday, ALL OF US have or are likely in contravention of some  laws or bylaws. So  yes we are all in contravention of these often overbearing and/or silly laws and bylaws and  can come under the scrutiny and often ill-founded or vindictive  of  some asshole govt bureaucrat  or  other thug. The govt  under some  vendetta or  such can   then   go back in reality in time and all the info they proverbially vacuumed up on you via the net and the phones you use  and  use this info  AGAINST YOU!

DON'T THINK  BIG BROTHER HAS NOT AND IS NOT DOING THIS STUFF!

The IRS has been under the pressure of the Executive Branch  going after Tea Party groups and other groups who use the  word "Patriot" in their names. This is a violation of the law  but the sheep   just  can't  be bothered or much like you sound here   excuse it and stuff like it  IMO out of ignorance.

But again Les, if you are not doing anything wrong why worry? Hey folks my  reply to such idiot logic is this.

If you are  as you say not doing anything wrong why worry about govt. snooping, well then  I ask you to go to any  authority of you choose and ask them to wire your house up with  cameras and microphone      and watch  you as you go about your living in the home. After all  you  ain't doin  nothin wrong right? So who cares? Well,  how many of you people  would  say  for the state to  wire up their homes for  surveillance without cause  nor warrant?

Come on, lets be real. Most if not all crime originates in a  person(s)  house. If the prying eyes of the state can  just  watch and listen to us all the time  then  we will be safer  RIGHT!?!

WRONG YOU FOOLS! Who  then protects us  from fallible and  often vindictive   govt. officials especially those with badges.

No, too many of us in the  so called FREE   WEST (HAH WHAT A JOKE THAT HAS BECOME)  need to live in a police  state  I guess  to see what  we are PISSING AWAY.

I'm going to say this again Les.  The Constitution of the US, the Bill of Rights and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in Canada only - only - binds government actors.  It does not bind private citizens (including corporations).  So talking about Microsoft spying on you in the context of a 4th Amendment discussion is just silly.  This is also the reason why Jayson could kick anyone of us off of here if he didn't like our political discussion.  Or I'm fully within my rights to tell someone that I don't want them to practice their particular religion in my home (not that I would). 

Secondly we make conscious choices - we choose to buy an xbox.  We choose to go on Facebook.  We've been warned.  People are looking.  And I fail to see what difference there is between being convicted of a crime because you incriminate yourself on Facebook versus incriminating yourself in the more literal public sense.  Short answer to the question I didn't ask - there isn't one.  Be aware of what you say and do online.  Period. 

Third - don't claim I argued something I didn't.  I've never said you shouldn't care about the government spying on you if you're not doing something wrong.  What I am saying is that a lot of these complaints - about Microsoft, about Apple, about Facebook are non starters.  No one is forcing you to agree to their terms of service.  If you want a simple, secure way to communicate - use email.  The government can't check your email without a warrant.  If you want to play computer games, don't use a new Microsoft X-Box. 

Fourth - where on earth do you get the idea that most if not all crimes originate in a person's home?  I'd love to see a stat that backs that up.

Fifth - there's no evidence tying the actions of a few IRS agents to anyone in the executive mansion.  The fact that you seem to jump to that conclusion (and lets face it, convictions) shows how much you care about the rule of law and due process.

Sixth - by any standard, the intrusions of the government into private lives has either remained at stasis, or indeed, even decreased.  A very casual reading of history will show us that.  President Adam's use of the Alien and Sedition Act to quell unpopular opinions would be unheard of today.  Abraham Lincoln suspended the right of Habeas Corpus and exercised extreme use of powers to arrest and detain individuals who were considered threats to the war effort.  This would have not even been considered as an option by LBJ or Nixon during Vietnam, or by Bush during Iraq.  Both Canada and the US essentially pissed all over any conception of rights and freedoms and liberties when they arrested and detains thousands of Japanese during the Second World War. This is loudly and rightly condemned by all modern leaders. The point is not that these were OK, or that we should be unconcerned about present or future issues - the point is that our societies survived, and have, over the course of history improved their civil rights and civil liberties records.

Les, you DO know wally does this shit for a living, right?

And Honor is right- none of this is anything a little masking tape won't fix.

JaysonAych wrote: Time to check out the vidya game thr-

Hey me tooooo.....

I don't care what anyone says, spying on people in their own homes when they don't realize it is a dick move.  Can you imagine sitting down to watch a movie with some friends, and your Fuckbox won't let you because it detects too many people in the room?  Fuck them.

Putting tape over anything isn't hte point.  Plus, I am sure they've thought of that and the system won't work if it can't see you or some shit. It's just a dick move, period.

Anyway, I haven't been following these systems at all... when are they scheduled for release? I am guessing near Xmas time...

Talon wrote:I don't care what anyone says, spying on people in their own homes when they don't realize it is a dick move.  Can you imagine sitting down to watch a movie with some friends, and your Fuckbox won't let you because it detects too many people in the room?  Fuck them.

Putting tape over anything isn't hte point.  Plus, I am sure they've thought of that and the system won't work if it can't see you or some shit. It's just a dick move, period.

Anyway, I haven't been following these systems at all... when are they scheduled for release? I am guessing near Xmas time...

Oh guaranteed it's an absolute dick move.  And I wouldn't buy an X-Box as a result.  And my guess is that if enough people feel the same way Microsoft will reverse course quickly - it's all dollars and cents for them.

Well they got rid of the "no lending games" part, so maybe youll be apied ble to watch movies with as many people as you want now, too. People dont seem to mind being spied on though, as soon as they got rid of the no lending and online check-in rules, it went to the #1 preorder on Amazon. It's fucked though. What's next with big brother?

Honor wrote:Well they got rid of the "no lending games" part, so maybe youll be apied ble to watch movies with as many people as you want now, too. People dont seem to mind being spied on though, as soon as they got rid of the no lending and online check-in rules, it went to the #1 preorder on Amazon. It's fucked though. What's next with big brother?

Well I only partially read what you guys had to say (since there seemed to just be about 700 paragraphs of Les v Wally)

What MS was bringing in actually had a lot of promise.  What they've now announced is now a big disadvantage for anyone that will have their xbone connected to the internet all the time. 

There was most certainly nothing like you'd mentioned about the kinect watching for the number of people watching a movie.  That sort of thing had never been anything but nonsense.

Talon wrote:I don't care what anyone says, spying on people in their own homes when they don't realize it is a dick move.  Can you imagine sitting down to watch a movie with some friends, and your Fuckbox won't let you because it detects too many people in the room?  Fuck them.

Putting tape over anything isn't hte point.  Plus, I am sure they've thought of that and the system won't work if it can't see you or some shit. It's just a dick move, period.

Anyway, I haven't been following these systems at all... when are they scheduled for release? I am guessing near Xmas time...

Last Tuesday.  Why would a console that's only purpose is to spy on you tell you when it is being released??? :jay:

dunnas wrote:

Talon wrote:I don't care what anyone says, spying on people in their own homes when they don't realize it is a dick move.  Can you imagine sitting down to watch a movie with some friends, and your Fuckbox won't let you because it detects too many people in the room?  Fuck them.

Putting tape over anything isn't hte point.  Plus, I am sure they've thought of that and the system won't work if it can't see you or some shit. It's just a dick move, period.

Anyway, I haven't been following these systems at all... when are they scheduled for release? I am guessing near Xmas time...

Last Tuesday.  Why would a console that's only purpose is to spy on you tell you when it is being released??? :jay:

I wouldn't be surprised if there was one in my house spying on me and I didn't even know it was there...

dunnas wrote:
There was most certainly nothing like you'd mentioned about the kinect watching for the number of people watching a movie.  That sort of thing had never been anything but nonsense.

They've definitely considered it.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was implemented.

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904

Patent filing wrote:5. The method of claim 1 further including continuously monitoring a number of users at a display device during the performance of the content.

6. The method of claim 5 further including determining whether a number of users at a display device exceeds the license option during the performance of the content.

hahahahaha

is bing owned by microsoft?

yes

hmmm, never knew that.

Talon wrote:

Haha, it's funny because...... it's real. Whoa.

this is a funny read:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/a-breakup-letter-to-xbox/

Just finally saw that GT6 trailer. Fuck yes Willow Springs. Now just bring back Sears Pt. Infineon and it'll be perfect.

here i am discussing the xbone

Hahahaha DENNIS RODMAN

Hahaha I haven't seen Francis for years.

lol Francis.... I just assumed he had a heart attack by now.

I feel bad for the guy. He's gotta be at least 400-450 pounds.

Despite Microsoft going back on all of the stupid shit that made the Xbone unappealing (except the $100 premium), I'm still leaning toward the PS4.

Then Turn 10 did this.  God damn you for making the choice difficult again   http://forzamotorsport.net/en-US/news/Bathurst_Announcement