So I think GM has lost it...

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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by thewalrus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:55 pm

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:The new Z-28 is a nice car and brutally quick but My God $75,000! I recall back in the day, mid 80's when one could get a Z-28, later IROC Camaro which for their time were   top performing muscle cars for $20K or so. A working stiff with working wages  could afford to buy one and know  for the time he was driving a pretty nice, go fast car. Today the Z-28 is beyond a regular working stiff's wages. But then  the top pony cars by all three  US makers are pretty well out of control price wise.

But you guys - this Z/28 isn't your typical Camaro.  It's designed to be rare.  Designed to target certain owners.  It isn't what the average working stiff would buy.

He'd buy a regular Camaro, which starts at $26000.  For a nicely equipped V8, in the SS trim package (which is closer to what the Z/28 was) he's still only spending about $38 - $45 000, which, in 1985 money would have been about $20 000.  So things haven't really changed all that much.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Talon on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:02 pm

It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Honor on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:03 pm

thewalrus wrote:

Honor wrote:And pretty sure the M3 is back to a I6



Fuck I hope so.  A turbo I4 in a car like that when you have perfectly good I6s available, is bullshit.

Were they talking about a turbo 4 in there? I must have missed that.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by thewalrus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:06 pm

Honor wrote:

thewalrus wrote:



Honor wrote:And pretty sure the M3 is back to a I6





Fuck I hope so.  A turbo I4 in a car like that when you have perfectly good I6s available, is bullshit.



Were they talking about a turbo 4 in there? I must have missed that.

Oh, maybe not.  I was thinking about the new I4Ts they're putting in the rest of the 2,3 and 4 series lines.  I suppose there are real world advantages, but BMW's use of an in-line 6 was what kept them so interesting in my book.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Honor on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:07 pm

Talon wrote:It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.

Only now the Z28 is over 2x as much as the SS. The SS was never 2x as much as the Z28. The ZL1 is right in the middle. So all 3 models changed ranks.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by thewalrus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:11 pm

Honor wrote:



Talon wrote:It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.





Only now the Z28 is over 2x as much as the SS. The SS was never 2x as much as the Z28. The ZL1 is right in the middle. So all 3 models changed ranks.



I'm not even sure that the Z28 is the equivalent of the old SS.  Playing around with the website, I'm tempted to say that the ZL1 is more like the old SS.  The SS is the old Z28.  And the new Z28 is like some sort of factory built Yenko.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Talon on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:45 pm

thewalrus wrote:
Honor wrote:




Talon wrote:It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.






Only now the Z28 is over 2x as much as the SS. The SS was never 2x as much as the Z28. The ZL1 is right in the middle. So all 3 models changed ranks.




I'm not even sure that the Z28 is the equivalent of the old SS.  Playing around with the website, I'm tempted to say that the ZL1 is more like the old SS.  The SS is the old Z28.  And the new Z28 is like some sort of factory built Yenko.


So in conclusion, GM has lost it.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by thewalrus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:50 pm

Talon wrote:

thewalrus wrote:


Honor wrote:






Talon wrote:It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.








Only now the Z28 is over 2x as much as the SS. The SS was never 2x as much as the Z28. The ZL1 is right in the middle. So all 3 models changed ranks.






I'm not even sure that the Z28 is the equivalent of the old SS.  Playing around with the website, I'm tempted to say that the ZL1 is more like the old SS.  The SS is the old Z28.  And the new Z28 is like some sort of factory built Yenko.




So in conclusion, GM has lost it.

Agreed.

I'm also tired of work and want to go home.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Les_Vipers_rule on Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:09 pm

thewalrus wrote:

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:The new Z-28 is a nice car and brutally quick but My God $75,000! I recall back in the day, mid 80's when one could get a Z-28, later IROC Camaro which for their time were   top performing muscle cars for $20K or so. A working stiff with working wages  could afford to buy one and know  for the time he was driving a pretty nice, go fast car. Today the Z-28 is beyond a regular working stiff's wages. But then  the top pony cars by all three  US makers are pretty well out of control price wise.



But you guys - this Z/28 isn't your typical Camaro.  It's designed to be rare.  Designed to target certain owners.  It isn't what the average working stiff would buy.

He'd buy a regular Camaro, which starts at $26000.  For a nicely equipped V8, in the SS trim package (which is closer to what the Z/28 was) he's still only spending about $38 - $45 000, which, in 1985 money would have been about $20 000.  So things haven't really changed all that much.


I'm only saying that back in the day a   regular income Joe type guy who wanted  a   fast car could buy at the time a   TOTL  Camaro Z-28, later IROC then by the 90's Z-28 name again. Even in the 90's a TOTL Z-28 cost you maybe $30,000 or so. I understand that  Chevy is using the Z-28 name to only define the new TOTL paradigm for Camaro, but that $75,000 price put most out of the equation. Where as say a 1994 Z-28 with 5 speed, 300HP,  and the power accoutrements many wanted was  still affordable to most regular folks.  The 1986 IROC (replaced Z-28 as TOTL model) was a 245HP, 5 speed with power options at about $20,000 and any guy with a half assed job could  buy and have a blast on  the weekends etc.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by thewalrus on Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:44 pm

Les_Vipers_rule wrote:

thewalrus wrote:



Les_Vipers_rule wrote:The new Z-28 is a nice car and brutally quick but My God $75,000! I recall back in the day, mid 80's when one could get a Z-28, later IROC Camaro which for their time were   top performing muscle cars for $20K or so. A working stiff with working wages  could afford to buy one and know  for the time he was driving a pretty nice, go fast car. Today the Z-28 is beyond a regular working stiff's wages. But then  the top pony cars by all three  US makers are pretty well out of control price wise.





But you guys - this Z/28 isn't your typical Camaro.  It's designed to be rare.  Designed to target certain owners.  It isn't what the average working stiff would buy.

He'd buy a regular Camaro, which starts at $26000.  For a nicely equipped V8, in the SS trim package (which is closer to what the Z/28 was) he's still only spending about $38 - $45 000, which, in 1985 money would have been about $20 000.  So things haven't really changed all that much.




I'm only saying that back in the day a   regular income Joe type guy who wanted  a   fast car could buy at the time a   TOTL  Camaro Z-28, later IROC then by the 90's Z-28 name again. Even in the 90's a TOTL Z-28 cost you maybe $30,000 or so. I understand that  Chevy is using the Z-28 name to only define the new TOTL paradigm for Camaro, but that $75,000 price put most out of the equation. Where as say a 1994 Z-28 with 5 speed, 300HP,  and the power accoutrements many wanted was  still affordable to most regular folks.  The 1986 IROC (replaced Z-28 as TOTL model) was a 245HP, 5 speed with power options at about $20,000 and any guy with a half assed job could  buy and have a blast on  the weekends etc.


But Les, they can still do that.  They can still go out and by a Camaro SS for less than $40k, that has a V8 with 425 HP and 420 lb/ft of torque and have a blast with it on weekends.  Accounting for inflation that's the same as a $20 k car in the mid 80s or a $30 k car in the 90s / early 2000s.

I guess I'm just not seeing your point.  Are you just concerned about the Z-28 name? If not, then just forget about the current Z/28.  It doesn't exist.  It's a stupid halo car for the Camaro model.  Chevy hasn't deprived the average guy on the street of one thing.  Indeed, they're offering a whole lot more for your dollar. You just have to be OK with the letters SS on the order sheet, instead of Z28.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Les_Vipers_rule on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:38 pm

Yep Wally I know. I agree Hell even the V-6 Camaro with over 300 HP kicks butt. I guess, yes its the name. Z-28 once was  a  working mans  label for a Camaro, pony car. Not the  name for an esoteric TOTL Camaro.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by SBF on Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:23 am

Talon wrote:
thewalrus wrote:

Honor wrote:





Talon wrote:It's like the names changed. The Z used to be the base V8, and the SS the upgraded version... now it's like they switched.







Only now the Z28 is over 2x as much as the SS. The SS was never 2x as much as the Z28. The ZL1 is right in the middle. So all 3 models changed ranks.





I'm not even sure that the Z28 is the equivalent of the old SS.  Playing around with the website, I'm tempted to say that the ZL1 is more like the old SS.  The SS is the old Z28.  And the new Z28 is like some sort of factory built Yenko.



So in conclusion, GM has lost it.

Lost it in a good way?
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Honor on Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:46 pm

So today GM recalled every Camaro built since 2010 for that ignition issue they were having with the Cobalt.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Tailhappy on Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:03 pm

Instead of the car shutting itself off though, GM noticed that if you bump the key fob with your knee, it'll shut off.

Just duplicated it in my CX-9, too. Maybe ALL cars with keys that are near your knee should be recalled.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by SBF on Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:37 am

Everybody is blowing the recall shit out of proportion.

GM got caught with something they covered up from years ago and they got bent over by the Feds. Because of that, they are covering their ass and recalling everything they think they could remotely cause an issue, hence the fact they have recalled like a few million cars this past week.

Someone from Jalopnik tested the Camaro key and they proved that due to the key design (key blade attached to the fob), you could in fact shut it off with your knee. However you really had to try to do it and your leg would not be near it while driving.

Still, GM is not fucking around. I can only imagine the nightmare that's going on in management. Mary Barra had a shit storm handed to her.
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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Swerve on Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:49 am

Such a confusing thread. It did remind me that the Mustang 5.0 I drove back in 2011 was available at the time from 28k. Such a bargain! I won't forget the massive speed advantage over E92 M3s up the hill at Laguna Seca.

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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by Tailhappy on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:11 am

SBF wrote:

Someone from Jalopnik tested the Camaro key and they proved that due to the key design (key blade attached to the fob), you could in fact shut it off with your knee. However you really had to try to do it and your leg would not be near it while driving.

Read that, got an idea, now I'm waiting for MY recall:

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Re: So I think GM has lost it...

Post by JaysonAych on Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:22 am

:roflmao: Is this why Mazda started becoming profitable again?

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